ELIGIBILITY TO WEAR CONFERENCE EMBLEM

MR. BUSSEY. We have approved the design of a Conference emblem and have made arrangements for the Conference Treasurer to take orders for the button; but it has not been decided who should be entitled to wear the emblem.

MR. ACKERMAN. In order to get the question before the Conference, I move that all duly registered members and guests who have been in attendance at the National Conference on Weights and Measures be entitled to wear the emblem.

THE CHAIRMAN. You mean that registration at any one session would entitle a person to wear the emblem?

MR. ACKERMAN. Yes, Sir.

(The motion was seconded.)

MR. PISCIOTTA. I think it was intended that this emblem should be something which weights and measures officials would wear to show their affiliation with the National Conference on Weights and Measures. I don't believe that my wife should be entitled to wear this emblem just because she is registered here as a guest, nor that men who are here because of some particular special interest, such as representatives of the tissue industry, for example, should be entitled to wear the emblem just because they happened to have registered at the Conference. I suggest an amendment to the motion to the effect that the only persons entitled to purchase and wear that emblem shall be active weights and measures officials, acting as such at the time the button is purchased.

MR. ACKERMAN. I accept that amendment.

THE CHAIRMAN. Perhaps it was not intended that all guests, particularly the ladies who are here in what may be termed a "social" capacity, be included; but I am wondering if it was not the original intention that representatives of industry be authorized to wear the emblem. There is nothing compulsory about it; they may wear it or not as they see fit.

MR. ACKERMAN. That was my original intention.

MR. PISCIOTTA. There is another problem. Any weights and measures official from any jurisdiction, whether or not he has ever attended a meeting of this organization, is a member of the National Conference by reason of the fact that he is engaged in weights and measures work. For example, all of the approximately one hundred weights and measures officials in my department cannot attend meetings of the National Conference, but the question arises, Should each of them be entitled to wear the Conference emblem? I should like to restrict this privilege to weights and measures officials in active service at the time of procurement of the emblem and who have at any time in the past. or who may in the future attend any one of our meetings.

THE CHAIRMAN. It occurs to me that considering the name of this organization, it is the National Conference on Weights and Measuresnot the National Conference of Weights and Measures Officials. If it is the disposition of the Conference to extend the privilege of wearing the emblem to any representative of industry who takes sufficient interest in what we are doing to attend our meetings, this would seem entirely appropriate.

MR. CRAWFORD. I think it would be well if we were to restrict the wearing of the emblem to active weights and measures officials. I do not believe that commercial men would take any exception to such a restriction.

MR. BAUCOM. I am inclined to feel that any man who is actively engaged in weights and measures work in the United States, who accepts the rulings of this Conference, and who tries to carry them out in his jurisdiction, should be entitled to wear the Conference emblem if he cares to do so.

MR. CRAWFORD. I move that the wearing of the Conference emblem be restricted to active members of the National Conference on Weights and Measures, that is, to weights and measures officials of the United States, regardless of whether or not they have been in attendance at a meeting of the National Conference on Weights and Measures.

(The motion was seconded, the question was taken, and the motion was agreed to.)

[SECRETARY'S NOTE.-See page 161 for the reconsideration of this action relative to the National Conference emblem.]

INTERSTATE TRUCKING OF COAL

Mr. BULSON. I have a problem involving coal trucked into northern New York from the Scranton area. It seems that weight tickets are issued at the point of loading, but that at some point after crossing the State border a new set of tickets will be made out, the second set from two to three tons more than the first. We have in Jefferson County but one scale capable of weighing these large loads to determine the gross and tare weights, and this is located at the international bridge between the United States and Canada; we must take the loaded trucks over there, weigh them gross, bring them back to unload, and then return to the international bridge to get the tare weight. One trucker whom I had convicted on a short-weight charge finally sold his outfit; he told me that at the place where he bought his meals and gasoline, they marked up his Scranton weight tickets by 2 tons with the understanding that if he succeeded in "getting away with it," he was to pay them the price of 1 ton on his way back.

I should like to know if some regulation could not be drawn up whereby the issuance of inaccurate weight tickets could be done away with.

Mr. BLICKLEY. A bill is now before the Pennsylvania Senate, having passed the House, making it compulsory to get weight tickets from the State; if this bill is enacted, we hope to eliminate this trouble in our own State and in the bordering States as well. Other States can then get from our bureau copies of what will be known as the "standard weight slip." The bill also makes it unlawful to print any weight tickets without the consent of the bureau. In other words, counterfeiting will be eliminated, and counterfeit tickets are what Mr. Bulson is getting in his territory.

The CHAIRMAN. We are controlling this situation in New Jersey through rigid enforcement of our laws. We have a regulation, based on a Supreme Court decision, requiring that when a load of coal comes into New Jersey, the gross and tare weights must be determined on the same scale before the truck leaves the premises; this

means that the load must be dumped in order to get the tare weight before the ticket can be made out, and the coal must then be reloaded. If the weighmaster fails to weigh the empty truck, he risks loss of his job.

Mr. DAVIS. Under the law in Vermont, a trucker bringing coal into Vermont from outside the State must follow the procedure which has just been outlined by Mr. Rogers. The trouble with the law is that the people are not in sympathy with it. I have attempted a number of prosecutions, but juries will seldom convict because they are in sympathy with the fellow who supplies coal at a price $5.00 or $6.00 a ton less than that charged by regular coal dealers in the State.

Mr. BLICKLEY. I wish to ask Mr. Bulson if Pennsylvania weight slips are recognized in New York.

Mr. BULSON. I am not an authority on the legal phases of the matter, but we usually check them to see whether or not they are

correct.

Mr. BLICKLEY. In Pennsylvania we do not recognize any weight slip except one issued by a certified Pennsylvania weighmaster. I know that New Jersey and Delaware will not recognize Pennsylvania weight slips, and if New York will refuse to recognize them that may be the remedy for your trouble. I would recommend that you make them weigh as soon as they cross the State line, just as we do.

We have even found truckers with books of weight slips, so that they could make out slips for any amount they chose.

Mr. DEVRIES. I think you will find that much of the trouble is caused by coal being watered at the mine and weighed while wet; after the load has traveled 50 or 100 miles its weight will be considerably less. I think that is one reason for the adoption of our certificate-of-origin law, designed to guarantee that our people will not get bootleg coal.

Mr. BULSON. We require a certificate of origin, but the problem is to determine the genuineness of the Pennsylvania certificate.

Mr. PISCIOTTA. Let me explain that the New York law calls for a certificate of origin, but the State Bureau of Weights and Measures has never issued to the mines any certificates, and as a result the weight slips from the Pennsylvania colliery or mine are accepted both as weight ticket and as what they construe as a certificate of origin. That is not done in New York City, however, for we have our own law separate from the State law.

The CHAIRMAN. Our certificates of origin are official documents, issued only by our department and to sources where we know the origin of the coal is legitimate. There was one instance of counterfeiting, which we broke up through our State police, with the cooperation of the State of Pennsylvania; a printing plant in Pennsylvania was raided, the forms were seized, and the two men responsible were prosecuted for counterfeiting.

Mr. BLICKLEY. Let me make it plain that the weights and meas ures bureau of Pennsylvania has nothing at all to do with certificates of origin. Weight certificates must be issued by licensed weighmasters, but a Pennsylvania weight certificate is not a certificate of origin.

423341-42- -11

CALIBRATION OF VOLUMETRIC STANDARDS

MR. ROBERT WILLIAMS. Recently it came to my attention that the measures used by some of the meter companies in my county for the testing of meters did not agree with mine. In one instance I was told pointedly that my measure was inaccurate, and I was shown certificates from a neighboring city and from a city in another State to substantiate the claim that the company measure was accurate. Incidentally, mine was a measure less than 6 months old, sealed by our State Department, and it was in perfect condition. I think there should be a standard practice for the testing of these volumetric standards, and I do not think there is a local sealer equipped to test 50-gallon or 100-gallon measures the way they should be tested. I contend that a 50-gallon measure cannot properly be tested against another 50-gallon measure. If water is delivered from the sealer's measure to the measure of the meter company, some water is bound to cling to the sealer's measure, causing an error of from 5 to 25 cubic inches.

I do not know that this Conference can do anything about it, but I strongly feel that all of the equipment used by the meter companies should be certified by the State Department of the State in which the equipment is to be used, just as the equipment of the sealers is certified; then we shall all be on an equal basis.

MR. A. T. SMITH. It has been my experience that accurate delivery cannot be made from one of these 50-gallon or 100-gallon measures— there are too many places to trap liquid. Moreover, these measures are made to contain, not to deliver, their nominal capacities. I feel that the proper method is to use an accurately tested 5-gallon or 10gallon test measure, adjusted to deliver.

MR. BULSON. I have what I term an "office" 5-gallon measure, certified by the State Department; I leave it in the office all the time. I check my 5-gallon field standards against this office standard once a month. Before testing with water, I use gasoline to provide an oily film on the inside of each measure; then I can do my testing with water, and if I do not spill any I can deliver from one measure to the other with a variation of only 1 cubic inch.

THE CHAIRMAN. The amount adhering to the walls of the standard can also be corrected for by first wetting the walls of the measure under test.

MR. ROBERT WILLIAMS. I still maintain that the only proper method is to use a slicker-plate standard which is adjusted to deliver. How many local sealers have such equipment?

TOLERANCES FOR CERTAIN FREIGHT SCALES

Mr. BAUCOM. I should like to ask Mr. Harrison a question, with his permission. It has been said that 95 percent of the railroad scales are AREA scales, and that these are superior to any other type. If this is true, I should like to know why, representing a railroad, he has come to the Bureau and asked for a double tolerance on his scales.

Mr. HARRISON. I do not recall any request having been made for a double tolerance on railway track scales.

Mr. BAUCOM. It is in the handbook, which recommends double tolerance on all scales used for computing freight charges.

Mr. HARRISON. I am afraid that Mr. Baucom is confusing two different things. The remarks made about adherence to AREA specifications were confined to railway track scales. The tolerance to which he refers does not apply to railway track scales at all; it applies to other than railway track scales. The heading of that section is "For Large-Capacity Scales Except Railway Track Scales."

Mr. BAUCOM. If that is correct it is all right. I do not have the book here. But I still do not understand why a railroad depot scale should not be required to be just as accurate as a similar scale in a motor-truck depot.

[SECRETARY'S NOTE. The provision in question, proviso 5 of paragraph J-1a of the National Conference Scale Code, is limited to automatic-indicating scales, and to scales used "exclusively in determining weights for the sole purpose of fixing charges for the transportation of freight," and no distinction is made between scales owned by railroads and scales owned by other transportation agencies.]

GLASSES FOR LIQUOR

Mr. DEVRIES. From time to time there has been introduced in the New Jersey Legislature a bill for the capacity marking of glasses for liquor. I feel that this is a matter which should be controlled by the weights and measures department and not by the alcohol beverage commission. I should like to know if any of the States represented here have such a law, and if so by whom it is enforced. Mr. PISCIOTTA. For several years we have tried to get such a law in New York State and in New York City. There has never been any conflict with the ABC Board, which has felt that this is a weights and measures problem.

The CHAIRMAN. The New Jersey department has felt the same way, but in our State the effort is made to put enforcement in the hands of the alcohol beverage commission. Accordingly, we have opposed these efforts to encroach upon the field of weights and measures work.

(At this point, at 5:00 p. m., the Conference adjourned, to meet at 10:00 a. m., Friday, June 6, 1941.)