Mr. O'BRIEN. Is there any further discussion?

Mr. ASPINALL. There is one question that I would like to ask Mrs. Van Cleve.

How much time do they have, in order to make their reapportionment?

Mrs. VAN CLEVE. Inasmuch as there is no situation in the bill, Mr. Aspinall, the time would be indefinite. If I might, I would like to address myself to the amendment that you just offered. I do not feel that I know what the local attitude is with any certainty on this subject. What I would submit, from a very short conversation with Mr. Witmer, is that additional seats might be put in the at-large category, but increasing the number of the at-large Representatives to 10 would preserve, during the transition period, action by the local legislature and this would preserve the status quo with respect to two Senators each from St. Thomas and St. Croix, and one from St. John. The remaining 10 would all be elected at large, and the proviso on lines 7 to 9 on page 2 would result in being to vote for 10 seats. Mr. ASPINALL. Ten or eleven.

Mrs. VAN CLEVE. Ten at large and five from the particular islands. Mr. CRALEY. You would get to vote for 11 candidates.

Mrs. VAN CLEVE. He would vote for however many were running from his own district. There would be on St. John and two each on St. Thomas and St. Croix. I am not sure, Mr. Chairman, that this is necessarily comparable to having all 15 elected at large. I cannot predict just what the local reaction would be, inasmuch as it is a lesser change than that embodied in your amendment, and it seems therefore to me less likely to raise difficulties.

Mr. ASPINALL. I ask unanimous consent to amend this by striking out the word "11" and inserting in lieu thereof the word "10."

Mr. O'BRIEN. Without objection, the amendment to the amendment is agreed to.

The question now occurs upon the amendment as amended, offered by the gentleman from Colorado.

All those in favor will say "aye"; opposed, "no." The amendment as amended is agreed to.

Are there any further amendments?

Mr. ASPINALL. I move that H.R. 13277 be reported favorably to the full committee, and in making the motion I ask that Mr. Witmer and Dr. Taylor send a telegram to the Governor to ask him what his reaction might be down there within the next few days, as to what we have proposed.

Mr. O'BRIEN. The gentleman from Colorado has moved that H.R. 13277, as amended, be reported favorably to the full committee. All those in favor, will say "aye"; opposed, "no."

It will be so reported.

Dr. TAYLOR. I am sure that we will have phone calls very shortly on this. Is this legislation mandatory or permissive?

Mr. O'BRIEN. You mean

Dr. TAYLOR. The whole bill as now written.

Mr. O'BRIEN. It is an increase in the membership from 11 to 15, which is mandatory. That is the Organic Act as amended. On the question of the at large, that is mandatory, too.

The subcommittee stands adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the subcommittee adjourned.)

61-023-6610

H.R. 13277, A BILL TO AMEND THE REVISED ORGANIC ACT OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS TO PROVIDE FOR THE REAPPORTIONMENT OF THE LEGISLATURE OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 27, 1966

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 11:20 a.m., in room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Wayne N. Aspinall (chairman) presiding.

Mr. ÅSPINALL. The Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs will come to order.

The next order of business is the consideration of H.R. 13277, by Mr. O'Brien, to amend the revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands to provide for the reapportionment of the Legislature of the Virgin Islands.

It was favorably reported with amendments by the Subcommittee on Territorial and Insular Affairs. It was introduced as the result of an executive communication.

Unless there is an objection, the bill be considered as having been read in full, printed in the record, and is open for amendment at any place.

Hearing no objection, it is so ordered. (H.R. 13277 follows:)

[H.R. 13277, 89th Cong., 2d sess.]

A BILL To amend the Revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands to provide for the reapportionment of the Legislature of the Virgin Islands

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That section 5(b) of the Revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands (48 U.S.C. 1571(b)), is amended to read as follows:

"(b) The legislature shall be composed of eleven members to be known as senators. The apportionment of the legislature shall be as provided by the laws of the Virgin Islands: Provided, That such apportionment shall not deny to any person in the Virgin Islands the equal protection of the law: and Provided further, That every voter in any district election or at large election shall be permitted to vote for the whole number of persons to be elected in that district election or at large election as the case may be. Until the legislature shall provide otherwise, the apportionment of the legislature shall remain as it is upon the date of enactment of this section: Provided, however, That the second proviso of this section shall be effective upon enactment."

Mr. ASPINALL. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. O'Brien, to explain the purposes of this bill.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Mr. Chairman, we did touch briefly on the Virgin Islands bill, but we do have a different situation in the Virgin Islands. There is a geographical problem. There is a water division, as it

were, between the islands, and it has been a most difficult problem to be sure, as much as possible, to have an area of district representation, and we thought that, for two reasons, it might be desirable to increase the size of the legislature from 11 members to 15 members. This was as it was in the Organic Act, at which time the problems of the Virgin Islands were great but were mostly our problems. Since then, the Virgin Islands, once called the poorhouse of the Caribbean has become quite affluent. There are problems in the legislature which have not happened before. Before, they just looked to us for help as they wanted it.

It is difficult for 11 people to break up into the proper number of committees, to adequately study these various problems, and I felt then, and I do now, that with 15 members they could do a better job of dividing up the legislative work.

We also have an additional beneficial effect from this. It would increase the membership of the legislature to a point where it would be possible, without violating the Supreme Court rule or the language we have in the bill, to give the island of St. John a voice in the legislature. I am sure that with the mathematical formula that we have, perhaps, the Court might not go along with a one-eleventh proposition. We thought that one-fifteenth would be within reason and not a violation of the law or the intent, at least, of the Supreme Court ruling. It is a problem that has come up under one of the amendments we have offered. We wanted to do all that we could without taking away home rule, to compel the Virgin Islands to reapprotion promptly, and the suggestion was made in the subcommittee that, perhaps, we could build a fire under them by requiring that 10 of the 15 be elected at large until the reapportionment. We thought that would be the goal they should have, but we had a rather strange reaction-or at least I did. I found that some of these people in the Virgin Islands kind of welcomed this as a mandate, as an expression of opinion by this committee, that we preferred the "at large." We did not. We felt that it was what they wanted, which was not a bad situation. I hope that we do not, in the language, give the impression to the Virgin Islanders that we want 10 of these 15 elected at large. That could lead to a one-party domination. Personally, I do not really want that. I will discuss that a little later on.

Mr. ASPINALL. Before we finish the meeting and report out this bill that is now before the full committee, let me say that the Chair sent a telegram to the Governor of the Virgin Islands asking for the reaction of what we had proposed. We asked the Governor to let the people know that this was being actively studied. We asked if there were any comments that we could get from the people in the islands, we should desire to have them. Dr. Taylor has in his possession at this time the results of those replies as to the wishes of the people.

Dr. Taylor, could you give us the results in capsule form?
Dr. TAYLOR. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Upon the receipt of the cablegram from Mr. Aspinall to the Governor of the Virgin Islands, and following some telephone calls I understand from members of the legislature to Mr. Aspinall and to Mr. O'Brien, comments were submitted to the chairman of the full committee.

At the present time, we have received-well, upwards of 75 letters and telegrams, some of them having multiple signators. By and large, the voters of the Virgin Islands are favorable to the enlargement of the legislature; in fact, I do not recall that there were more than onehalf dozen or perhaps fewer persons who wrote and asked to leave the size as it is. One or two said "We have already talked about enlarging this in the Constitution Review Commission, and have turned it down." Therefore, the people thought that they were going to go along with the 11. But even those diehards who wanted to follow the strict interpretation of the wishes of the Review Commission seemed to feel that the 15-member legislature will be able to do a better job.

There seems, however, to be some question about whether the 10 at-large members is the answer.

In favor of the 10 at-large, our communications from St. Croix, total 20; from St. Thomas, 3; from St. John, none. There would be a total of 23 favoring the 10 at-large.

Against the at-large of 10, there would be 18 from St. Croix, 7 from St. Thomas, and 12 from St. John, which would be 37 against and 23 in favor of the 10 at-large.

And then there is another one that I have just received from Senator Morehead, the man who probably will lose his job under this arrangement. He is, obviously, against the 10 at-large.

Mr. ASPINALL. Where is he from?

Dr. TAYLOR. St. John.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I think that some of those letters might require a literal interpretation by the committee. I think their view, as mine, would be somewhat slant by what advantages the politicians would get or would not get from the 10 at-large, but I was amazed, frankly, to find out that if we gave them this redistricting and reapportionment, I was amazed to find that it was greeted with open arms by people who saw a chance to transform the 6 to 5 divisions in the Virgin Islands to about 12 to 3 by grabbing all 10 of the at-large. I do not think that we in this committee want that. We just do not approve of these things unless we have to. Certainly, we are intervening to some extent when we say 10 at-large until they are reapportioned, and if we are going to go that far, I think that the average person in the Virgin Islands and I am talking now about the man in the street, the businessman would just as soon that for the first reapportionment that it shall be five for St. Thomas, five for St. Croix, one for St. John-that is just for the first reapportionment-and then let them worry how they will cut their lines and conform with the Supreme Court rule et cetera. If we are going to set down the guidelines, we should do that. They do not like our five, five, four, and one. And if they do not, just as they did not like our 10 at-large, they can change it in the second program.

Mr. ASPINALL. Unless there is an objection, the cable to the Governor and the response from the Governor shall be made a part of the record, and the rest of the correspondence shall be made a part of the files of the committee.