Mr. Rivers. Mr. RIVERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome you, Governor Paiewonsky, and members of the Interior Department. As I say, it is always a pleasure to have you before us as a witness because you know the subject so well and always give us such succinct testimony. What do you think about this provision which would say that the President may remove the Governor, an elected Governor? Governor PAIEWONSKY. I am supporting the bill that was submitted here by the administration. I am part of the administration. I support the bill. We have not given any thought to this. I have no personal opinion on this particular matter. But we are supporting— I am supporting the bill as submitted. Mr. RIVERS. I might say that I am in favor of this bill, the principle of this bill, which is to expand self government through the election of the Governor, but I observed yesterday that the Guam witnesses opposed a provision which would authorize the President to remove an elected Governor, and that they would rather stand on the recall by the people locally. And I just thought that you folks might have some similar objection to that provisions. Does the Virgin Islands have a bicameral legislature or a unicameral legislature? Governor PAIEWONSKY. Unicameral legislature, consisting of 11 members elected on a 2-year basis. Mr. RIVERS. How many in the Senate? Governor PAIE WONSKY. There is just one chamber. It is a unicameral system and they are all known as Senators. Mr. RIVERS. Thank you. I misunderstood you. It is unicameral, then? Governor PAIE WONSKY. Unicameral. Mr. RIVERS. And it has 11 members. The Guam bill limited the Governor's term to 2 years, and I would like to ask you if you favor two 4-year terms, two successive 4-year terms? Mr. O'BRIEN. Will the gentleman yield? There was a discussion of that, but the bill does not so limit it. It would leave that decision in the bill as it is now written to the legislature. Mr. RIVERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had not gotten totally familiar with the bill that was before us yesterday. Governor, do you have any objection to any phase of this bill as now drafted that we have not discussed or pointed to yet? Governor PAIEWONSKY. No. There was only one point which I discussed last evening with the Interior Department officials and Mrs. Van Cleve covered that this morning, and that was the right that the Governor may have a representative attend sessions of the legislature and they can express his views. We have found this to be very useful and we would like to have this continued. It has been a custom in the islands going back to the Danish days and to the days after the Organic Act was inaugurated and even before that. Mr. RIVERS. I have no objection to that. As a matter of local custom, I think it is quite interesting. Mrs. Van Cleve made that quite clear. Governor PAIEWONSKY. I know there was a question that came up regarding whether the election should take place on election year, Presidential election year or on an off year, and I would say that I am pretty sure that the general consensus of the opinion of the people of the Virgin Islands is that this makes no difference, because we do not vote in a Presidential election and, therefore, an off year-the main point that we would like to see is to have the right to vote and elect our own Governor in the Virgin Islands. What year it is makes no difference, whether it is an off year or an odd year, or not a presidential year. We are not concerned with this point. Mr. O'BRIEN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. RIVERS. I yield, Mr. Chairman. Mr. O'BRIEN. Governor, it is possible, however, that the time might come when the people of the Virgin Islands and Guam and elsewhere might be permitted to vote in a presidential election, and do you not think that even though that is just a possibility at this stage it might be wise to prepare, because once you become accustomed to something it is sometimes difficult to change it. It might seem unimportant now whether you elect him in a presidential year or nonpresidential year, but it could become very controversial at some future time. And I think if we are going to decide it, that this would be a real good time to do it. But I am glad to hear that whatever the decision is will not make a great deal of difference. Governor PAIEWONSKY. The position that I am taking, which is the position, I think, of most of the people of the Virgin Islands, we leave this decision to the good judgment of the Congress to make. Mr. O'BRIEN. That is very refreshing. Very few people do that. Mr. TAYLOR. Would the gentleman yield? Mr. RIVERS. I yield. Mr. TAYLOR. I would like to ask Mrs. Van Cleve what the thinking of the Department was, or the reason is back of making the election for Governor to be at the same time as our election for President? Mrs. VAN CLEVE. Our theory was that the electorate would have a better basis for making a judgment in exercising its franchise, because most of the candidates would in some manner identify with national candidates, that it would be possible to reach conclusions with respect to the attitudes of given candidates because of such alliances as they might have. Now, they would not in all cases have such alliances, but such alliances as they might have with respect to national political parties whose views would, of course, become best known during election years. Mr. TAYLOR. Well, now the Governor states that they do not vote for President and Vice President there. Were you thinking in terms of the future, perhaps a time when they will? Mrs. VAN CLEVE. Not necessarily. I hasten to say that we do hope that the time will come when the right to vote in national elections will be accorded to citizen residents of the territories, and we have undertaken the steps necessary to move such a constitutional amendment forward. I am not able to express an official position with respect to such matter at this time. It is too early in the legislative process. But you may be sure that this is a point about which we are conscious. But quite apart from such a right being accorded to the citizen residents of the territories, we presume that even though they do not vote in national elections, there is a knowledge, a consciousness on the part of Virgin Island and Guam voters of what national political parties stand for. To that extent, they would be assisted in making up their minds intelligently as to how they would like to vote. Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you. Mr. RIVERS. I yield back my time now. Mr. O'BRIEN. Mr. Berry. Mr. BERRY. Just one or two questions. Do you really think that a 4-year term is better than a 2-year term? Do the people think that a 4-year term is better than a 2-year term? Governor PAIEWONSKY. I think so, and I think the history of this even in your States-I said the history even in your States is now moving toward a 4-year term rather than a 2-year term. A 2-year term for an elected Governor means that he will be practically running a campaign from the time he is elected the first year right through without being able to carry out a full program. Mr. BERRY. Well, for your information, you have to anyhow, whether he has 2 years or 4 years, and he does campaign all the time. But it does give the people of the State an opportunity to change more efficiently in the event that the Governor does not do the job that they want done. Governor PAIEWONSKY. Well, I think there is arguments on both sides, and I think I noted that there was a recommendation even for Congress, the House of Representatives, the members being put on a 4-year basis rather than a 2-year basis. Mr. BERRY. It seems I heard something about that, too. But I am very much opposed to it, I might add. That is all. Wait a minute, can I ask this? Your legislature is elected for how long? Governor PAIEWONSKY. On a 2-year basis. Mr. BERRY. I just have a feeling, and this is just personal, I have a feeling that it would be better if the Governor followed your legislature in the election, and this is just my personal feeling on this. Governor PAIEWONSKY. Well, I think it will take a Governor when he is elected Mr. O'BRIEN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BERRY. Yes. Mr. O'BRIEN. I think, frankly, that this whole question of 2 years versus 4 years is pretty much a matter that will be thought out in this particular committee. We have 4-year men here and 2-year men here. And I think the attitude of the Governor has been, well, he favors the 4 years, but that is one of those things that might have to be decided here, although I must say, and I think the gentleman will agree, that the trend has been away from the 2 years toward the 4 years generally in the States. Personally, I favor a 2-year term when we have a Republican Governor and a 4-year term when we have a Democratic Governor. Mr. BERRY. I think that is the trend in some instances. Mr. MORTON. I think that is what motivated the whole thing. [Laughter.] Mr. O'BRIEN. Are you finished? Mr. BERRY. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor, I am very happy to welcome you before this committee. I just wish the hearings were being held in the Virgin Islands. State again your statement as to the percent of your people which can read and write. Governor PAIEWONSKY. Ninety-eight percent. Governor PAIE WONSKY. Can read and write. Mr. TAYLOR. Well, I congratulate you on that. That is a fine record. A question or two in regard to electing the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor as a team. I might direct this question to Mrs. Van Cleve. Is there a trend in that direction? Are other States following the New York lead in that. respect? Mrs. VAN CLEVE. I frankly do not know. Certainly there are people with strong views who say that this is desirable, and I suppose the pure political scientists regard it as desirable. This is one of many points about which we had lengthy discussions within the executive branch. The prevailing view was that we would follow the New York precedent. Like so many of these other points, it is not an issue about which we feel terribly strongly. Mr. RIVERS. Will the gentleman yield to me? Mr. TAYLOR. Yes, sir. Mr. RIVERS. I might say that Alaska, Mrs. Van Cleve, is another precedent. When our constitution was drafted 8 years ago, we pursued the best of modern political science, averting the pitfalls and the faults of previous productions, and we put our Governor and Lieutenant Governor on as a team so that there could not be cleavage in the Governor's office with the Governor of one party and the Lieutenant Governor a member of the other party. Thank you for yielding. (Letter from Mrs. Van Cleve to Hon. Roy A. Taylor, dated March 16, 1966, follows:) Hon. Roy A. TAYLOR, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C. OFFICE OF TERRITORIES, Washington, D.C., March 16, 1966. DEAR MR. TAYLOR: During the hearings on March 8 on H.R. 11777, which would provide for an elected Governor in Virgin Islands, you inquired as to whether there was any recent trend among the States to have a team vote requirement for the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor. As you know, H. R. 11777 proposes such a team requirement for Virgin Islands. While we have by no means made an exhaustive search to ascertain whether such trend exists, we did check the local office of the Council of State Governments and also reviewed the latest publication of that organization, "The Book of the States, 1964-65." Both of these sources could give us no definitive information to enable us to answer you with positiveness as to a trend, but we would like to quote from page 137 of the "Book of the States," which indicates that the State of Michigan, effective in 1967, will require the Governor and Lieutenant Governor to be elected as a team, a requirement that does not exist currently in that State. The quote is as follows: "Following a trend that has been progressing elsewhere toward strengthening State administrations by lengthening terms of office for Governor and other executive officers, the Michigan constitution provides that, effective in 1967, the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, and Secretary of State will serve 4-year terms. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor will be elected as a team, and no limitation is placed on the number of terms that may be served." We might note that the quote does state affirmatively that there is a trend among the States to lengthen terms of office for Governors, a matter which was also discussed at the above hearings. The Council of State Governments also informed us that both Louisiana and Pennsylvania, now in the throes of reviews of their State constitutions, are each entertaining proposals to require that their respective Governors and Lieutenant Governors be elected as a team. Further, we have ascertained that, effective January 1, 1954, a New York State amendment approved November 3, 1953, provides for the election of a Governor and Lieutenant Governor jointly by a single vote of each voter applicable to both offices. Lastly, you may recall Representative Ralph J. Rivers of Alaska, one of the States most recently admitted to the Union, testified that that State specifically provides a joint vote for the Governor and the next highest official in such State, namely the Secretary of State. We would like to mention at least two practical considerations which we feel apply to the circumstances obtaining in the U.S. territories which make the case for the Governor and Lieutenant Governor running as a team even more compelling than is the case in the 50 States. First, even after the approval of the elected Governor bills, the Governors of Guam and the Virgin Islands will almost surely have to be off-island a considerable part of the time, perhaps as much as one-fifth to one-quarter of the year in total. Official travel will account for most of such off-island time. Even though no longer supervised by the Federal Government, the Governor will have to be a frequent visitor to Washington, since Federal funds and Federal laws will continue to play a substantial role in each territory. As you know, the hearing process itself in the Congress, in both Chambers, will call for numerous personal appearances, in addition to the needed appearances of the Governor before the Bureau of the Budget and other executive agencies. In fact, once the Governor is no longer a Federal employee, the Interior Department can no longer represent his position as surely and confidently as today. In addition to official travel, Governors must leave their island from time to time for vacation, specialized medical care, graduation of college children, in short the many things that would take a State Governor more than 50 miles from his State capital. But in the case of the territories, such travel takes the Governor outside of his jurisdiction. Second, the nature of many, perhaps most in terms of numbers of actions, of territorial gubernatorial decisions are municipal in character. Unlike the more long-range problems confronting State Governors, territorial problems arise daily of a sort which must be handled that day or that week. Many are also of a one-time-only character, which once done cannot be undone. For these reasons, in addition to the usual ones confronting a State Governor, we deem it important that the Lieutenant Governor be of the same political party and orientation as the Governor. Of course this will not automatically and in every case eliminate the chance of friction and lack of continuity, since the possibility of a clash of personalities is present. But it will tend to reduce such hazards, and avoid a situation where such a clash was almost required by law. Sincerely yours, Mrs. RUTH G. VAN CLEVE, Director. Mr. TAYLOR. Governor, how do you select your candidates, primary or conventions, or how? GOVERNOR PAIEWONSKY. Prior to the passage of the election code, they were selected by convention method, or by various groups of citizens signing a petition for placing independent candidates on the ballot. With the new election code we now have, it is by primary. Mr. TAYLOR. And you have two strong political parties? Governor PAIEWONSKY. We have several strong political parties on the island, and we have very strong factions within one political party. Mr. TAYLOR. Well, then, you would probably have more than two teams running for Governor and Lieutenant Governor. Governor Paiewonsky. Oh, yes. Mr. Taylor. You might have how many? Governor PAIEWONSKY. You may have at least three. In the last election I think there were six different groups sponsoring candidates. |