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their future communications with the Bey and Government of Tunis?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: There may be said to be "two Financial Commissions"- the Executive Committee, composed of two Tunisians, and a French Inspector of Finances, appointed by the Bey on the recommendation of the French Government; and the Control Committee, composed of two French, two English, and two Italians, representing the bondholders. The French Government has already been informed (Tunis 6, page 55) that Her Majesty's Government expect that, before any change is made in the existing constitution of the Financial Commission, an opportunity will be given to the creditors of expressing their views on the subject. The agreement as to the Financial Commission does not appear to be affected by the recent communication of M. Roustan. Instructions have been sent to Mr. Reade with regard to his relations to the Governor of Tunis, which will be included in Papers which are shortly to be laid upon the Table.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL: Will the hon. Gentleman state, Whether, as a matter of fact, the British Consul at Tunis has access to the Bey on public matters; and whether, so far as the British Consul is concerned, the Circular of M. Roustan is invalid and ineffectual?

cular of M. Roustan is invalid and ineffectual?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: That, in my opinion, is precisely the same as the first paragraph of a Question on the Paper for to-morrow. It is—

"Whether the appointment of M. Roustan as sole intermediary between the Bey of Tunis and the Foreign Representatives there is in contradiction with M. St. Hilaire's assurances that the treaty rights of England should be 'scrupulously respected?

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF said, that the Question was whether at this moment the British Consul at Tunis had or had not access to the Bey on public matters?

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: That Question is precisely the Question that is placed upon the Paper for to-morrow, and I will answer it then.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF: Then, Sir, I shall move the adjournment of the House. I am very sorry to say that I am obliged to do so because we can never get an answer from him. The Question I ask is whether the British Consul has or has not access to the Bey on matters connected with British interests? There have been several Questions lately on this question, but none of this character; one, for instance, refers to the invasion of English merchant ships by French cruisers. The Question I will ask on Monday is not a question of Treaty right. It is a question of the SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: There right of the British Consuls in the East are already on the Paper two Ques-under capitulation. It is true that antions, one of them for to-morrow, on this matter; and perhaps it will be more courteous to the hon. Gentlemen who have given Notice of them that I should make the answer to them.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL: There is no Question on the Notice Paper of the same nature as the one I have just put.

other Question is on the Paper for tomorrow; but it is not exactly the same; and I want to know at this moment whether the British Consul is or is not debarred from access to the Bey? I am sorry to do this; but in order to put myself in Order I take a course which has been forced upon me by the interruptions which have come from below the Gangway opposite. I move the ad

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: The Question for to-morrow is to ask whe-journment of the House. ther, under existing Treaties, the British Consul has not access to the Bey on public matters? That I take to be precisely the Question which the noble Lord has asked.

MR. SPEAKER: Does any hon. Gentleman second the Motion?

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL : Not at all. What I wish to know is, Whether the British Consul has access to the Bey of Tunis on public matters; and whether, so far as the position of the British Consul is concerned, the Cir

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL: I do.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."(Sir H. Drummond Wolff.)

LORD JOHN MANNERS regretted that his hon. Friend should have felt obliged to move the adjournment of the

House; but he must say that he thought | or without any Notice at all, and this the reason assigned by the Under Se- gave extreme difficulty to those who had cretary of State for Foreign Affairs for charge of these matters. I ask for time refusing to answer the plain Question to answer this Question; and I still say which the hon. Member had put went far that the first paragraph of the Question to justify the course which he had pur- to-morrow, if it means anything at all, sued. The Under Secretary appeared to means exactly the same as the Question him to have put a construction of his own which has been put to-night. As to on the Question which was to be asked what was stated by the noble Lord, I to-morrow in bar of answering the Ques- may say that I gave that reason, and I tion now put by the hon. Member for might have given this one also. Portsmouth. The hon. Baronet the Under Secretary would, perhaps, permit him to say that, though the construction which he put upon the Ques-usual that Notice should be given on tion to be put to-morrow might appear to be obvious to him, it was not necessarily obvious to other Members of the House. The Question put was a very simple one; and, therefore, he hoped the hon. Gentleman would have the kindness to answer it without delay.

SIR CHARLES W. DILKE: The noble Lord has stated that the reason why I did not answer the Question was that there was a similarity between it and another Question that is to be put to-morrow; but I may point out that there is no occasion to find any such reason. But I may say, further, it is not usual to answer Questions without Notice, especially Questions of delicate pending negotiations. [Sir H. DRUMMOND WOLFF: Pending?] Yes, pending; because we are actually in communication with foreign Governments on this very question. I stated just now that we had sent a despatch this very day to Mr. Reade on the subject. It is not usual to answer Questions on delicate matters of this kind without Notice; and it is only about a week ago that I appealed to the House in regard to Notices of Questions on foreign affairs. I am speaking within the recollection of many hon. Members who will remember what took place last Parliament in matters relating to foreign affairs. Such Questions were not often put without Notice. The practice of putting such Questions without Notice began in the last Session of Parliament, and has received a great extension in the present Session. If hon. Gentlemen will look back to the records of the last Parliament, they will find that there was rarely any Question put on foreign affairs without a Notice of from four days to a week; but in the present Parliament such Questions are usually put at one day's Notice,

Lord John Manners

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE : There can be no doubt that the hon. Baronet is right in saying that it is

Questions on foreign affairs; and if he had given that reason first, in answer to my hon. Friend, I feel perfectly sure that not a word more would have been said. The reason which the hon. Baronet gave was of quite a different character; and I must say he did rather provoke an examination in contrasting the terms of one Question with another as the reason for not giving an answer.

MR. GLADSTONE: I am not at all surprised that the right hon. Gentleman recognizes the duty of covering, as well as he can, the consequences of any general miscarriage on the part of one of his political Friends. I find, therefore, no fault with his speech. But how does this matter stand? It stands thus -a Question is put to my hon. Friend, without Notice, on foreign affairs, on a matter of extreme delicacy, and on which communications are actually going on. The right hon. Gentleman opposite admits that the Under Secretary announced a perfectly just reason for not answering the Question to-day, but says he gave a wrong reason at first, and for giving this wrong reason the hon. Member for Portsmouth moves the adjournment of the House. I must say, and I do not say so as reflecting upon the hon. Member, that of all the unreasonable occasions-["Oh, oh!"]-this appears to me the most unreasonable, or the least reasonable, if you like so to take it. It is an attempt to force an answer now, at this moment, to a Question on foreign affairs without Notice. It is not a question as to whether my hon. Friend gave a right or a wrong reason. That is not the position of the hon. Member. He insists upon an immediate answer, without any postponement, and says that if he cannot have an immediate answer he will move the adjournment of

the House. That is the position of the | he had; but at present that was the

case

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF: I beg the right hon. Gentleman's pardon. My reason for moving the adjournment of the House was the discourteous interruptions of hon. Members opposite.

only way by which Members on his side of the House could obtain a hearing, owing to the intolerance and interruptions of hon. Members opposite-he must say, chiefly on the part of those hon. Members who had had the least experience in that House. When those who sat beside him were met by cla

dressed the House, and when they were clearly within their legal rights, then they ought to move the adjournment in order, as far as possible, to put their foot upon this sort of interruptions. That was the intention of his hon. Friend, and not any desire to force an answer. He hoped that Motions for Adjournment would not often become necessary; but he hoped they would always be made until hon. Members opposite were prepared to treat them differently.

MR. GLADSTONE: I must apologize to the hon. Momber if I have misunderstood him; but I am unable to under-mour and disturbance when they adstand why interruptions from this side of the House, if there were any interruption, should be a reason for a Motion of Adjournment. He insisted upon an immediate answer; and I want to know whether the insistance of an immediate answer is to be persisted in, and whether it has the countenance of the right hon. Gentleman opposite? It has, unfortunately, the countenance of the noble Lord (Lord John Manners). He rose with an aspect of general mildness; but he also insisted upon an immediate answer. Now, for a moment, and for argument's sake, I waive the question whether my hon. Friend gave the proper answer. I maintain he gave a most courteous answer. Instead of asking generally and largely for Notice of the Question, he said that there is a Question standing for to-morrow, which is the shortest Notice there can possibly be, in which he considered the Question that had been put is included, and he proposed to answer both Questions together to-morrow. Therefore my hon. Friend made a most reasonable request. But the noble Lord opposite asks an immediate answer, and justified this Motion for Adjournment. I beg to suggest to the House that this Motion for Adjournment ought not to be allowed to be dropped, but that we should go to a division, in order to mark our sense of the Motion which has been made to the House.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL : Mr. Speaker

MR. DILLWYN: I rise to Order, Sir. The noble Lord has already seconded the Motion, and I wish to know if he is again entitled to speak?

MR. SPEAKER: According to the strict Rule of debate, the noble Lord having seconded the Motion for the Adjournment, is not in Order in speaking again.

EARL PERCY said, no one could have a stronger objection to Motions for Adjournment at this time of the day than

MR. MONK submitted that the hon. Member for Portsmouth (Sir H. Drummond Wolff) moved the adjournment of the House to put himself in Order in making his speech, and that he was making a speech instead of asking a Question when he was called to Order. He trusted the House would, in accordance with the suggestion of the Prime Minister, show its opinion of these frequent Motions for Adjournment by going to a division.

MR. W. H. SMITH could not but hope that more moderate and wise counsels would prevail, and that the time of the House, which had so often been stated to be extremely valuable, would not be further wasted. An explanation had been given and accepted, and the proper course would be to proceed at once with the Business of the House.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF: I beg to withdraw the Motion. [“No, no!"]

MR. GLADSTONE: I shall be unwilling to place any difficulty in the way after what has been said; but I must honestly say-and I hope the hon. Member will not think it unreasonable― that I think he ought to state that he withdraws his demand for an immediate answer.

SIR H: DRUMMOND WOLFF: I do not for a moment regret the course I have taken; but I beg to withdraw the Motion. ["No, no!"]

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. Member desire to withdraw the Motion?

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF: May I say one word? I withdraw the Motion in consequence of the demand which has been made by the Under Secretary for time to answer the Question. [Mr. GLADSTONE: Hear, hear!]

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

1609

LAND LAW (IRELAND) BILL.-[BILL 135.]
(Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Forster, Mr. Bright, Mr.
Attorney General for Ireland, Mr. Solicitor
General for Ireland.)

COMMITTEE. [NINTH NIGHT.]
[Progress 14th June.]

Bill considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
PART I.

ORDINARY CONDITIONS OF TENANCIES.
Clause 1 (Sale of tenancies).

MR. GLADSTONE: I have an appeal to make to the hon. Member for Portarlington (Mr. Fitzpatrick), who has the first Amendment on the Paper, not to bring it forward at the present moment, because I find that it deals with the question of judicial rents in statutory tenancies. This question is out of place on this part of the Bill, and will have to

be dealt with farther on.

Amendment postponed.

MR. BRODRICK moved in page 2, line 26, after "tenancy," to insert

"Provided always, That if the amount of the purchase money is insufficient to pay the moneys found due to the landlord as aforesaid, the amount of such insufficiency shall be a first charge on the interest of the incoming tenant in the holding."

The hon. Member said that at present the landlord's improvements were not saved by the Bill, and it was necessary to make some attempt to produce an equality in respect of improvements between the position of the landlord and that of the tenant. He would suggest, therefore, that the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister should accept the Amendment he (Mr. Brodrick) had placed upon the Paper, saving those parts of the landlord's improvements which had not been realized, or make it incumbent upon the Court to provide that when the tenant sold his interest

such sale should not in any case include the improvements of the landlord.

Amendment moved,

In page 2, line 26, after "tenancy," to insert "Provided always, That if the amount of the purchase money is insufficient to pay the moneys found due to the landlord as aforesaid, the amount of such insufficiency shall be a first charge on the interest of the incoming tenant in the holding."

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. GLADSTONE: I do not think the hon. Gentleman has taken into account that this subject is to undergo amendment in conformity with the suggestion made by the right hon. and learned Gentleman the junior Member for the University of Dublin (Mr. Gibson) to limit the application of the sub-section in order that there may be no passing, without the consent of the landlord, of the landlord's improvements to the new tenant. Under these circumstances, I do not think it desirable to press this Amendment, and I hope that the hon. Member for West Surrey (Mr. Brodrick) will reserve his judgment upon the matter tion of the limitations which are to be until we have entered upon the ques

made.

MR. GIBSON said, the Government stand by for the present and be brought proposed that the sub-section should up on the Report. He thought the Amendment moved by his hon. Friend would have to be dealt with in some way, and he would give his reason why. the consent of the landlord, that was one Supposing improvements were sold with of the two questions that would have to be dealt with, and the Amendment proposed to deal with an alternativenamely, where the purchase money was not sufficient to pay for the improvements. The hon. Member asked that, in the event of the purchase money not being sufficient, the improvements should become a charge upon the holding.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAW) said, the tenant could not sell the fee simple of the landlord's improvements any more than of the land itself; but if, with the consent of the landlord, the absolute property in the improvements was sold in conjunction with the tenancy of the tenant, then the two things would pass together to the

purchaser, and the Court would have to find out what part of the purchase money belonged to the tenant, as representing his tenancy, including his use of the improvements, and what part to the landlord.. That would be a matter for the Court to decide. Neither would be entitled to anything beyond what was found to represent his own separate interest.

MR. BRODRICK said, that after what had fallen from the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government he had great pleasure in withdrawing the Amendment; but he hoped the question would be taken into consideration.

MR. LEAMY pointed out that the landlord had already the right of preemption, and if he chose to give his assent to the sale of improvements which were his own property he ought to take the consequence of that sale, and to accept as much and no more than the improvements would bring him. The landlord might exercise his right of pre-emption if he thought the improvements were going to be sold at a sacrifice.

for Bridport (Mr. Warton), whether, when the claim of the landlord for improvements, together with the claim for rent, overtops the tenant right, that circumstance should not be taken into consideration in the charge made upon the incoming tenant, I certainly think that it must be regarded as a debt due from the outgoing tenant.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. E. W. HARCOURT moved, in line 31, after "rent," to insert "for waste by dilapidation of buildings or deterioration of the soil."

Amendment moved,

In page 2, line 31, after "rent," insert "for waste by dilapidation of buildings or deterioration of the soil."-(Mr. E. W. Harcourt.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Law) hoped the hon. Gentleman would not press this Amendment, the object of which was, he submitted, fully provided for already.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

DR. COMMINS said, the incoming tenant would undoubtedly pay the value of the improvements in the first instance, MR. COHEN moved, in line 31, to and the Amendment proposed to make leave out "otherwise," and insert "other him pay interest upon the money that breaches of the contract or conditions of might be owing to the landlord in addi-tenancy." He said that the sub-section tion to what he had paid already. In point of fact, it made him pay twice

over.

MR. WARTON wished to point out a case which he did not think was provided for in the section-namely, the case where money was due to the landlord, not only for landlord's improvements, but for arrears of rent. It might be that the whole of the money due to the landlord from these two sources amounted to more altogether than the purchase money. The landlord was to have payment for any debt due to him from the tenant. Of course, that debt covered arrears of rent; but he hoped the Attorney General for Ireland and Her Majesty's Government would see that there might be a case where the claim of the landlord, both for arrears of rent and for improvements, overtopped what the incoming tenant was about to pay. Surely that ought to be a charge on the incoming tenant.

MR. GLADSTONE: In answer to the appeal of the hon. and learned Member

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enabled the landlord to recoup himself out of all monies claimed from the tenant for arrears of rent or otherwise. Many hon. Members, including himself, were puzzled to know what was meant by" arrears of rent or otherwise."

Amendment moved,

In page 2, line 13, leave out " otherwise," and insert "other breaches of the contract or conditions of tenancy."-(Mr. Cohen.)

Question proposed, "That the word otherwise stand part of the Clause."

LORD GEORGE HAMILTON asked, as a point of Order, whether this Amendment could be put, seeing that its adoption would prevent other Amendments of which Notice had been given from being moved?

THE CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member for Queen's County (Mr. Lalor) has an Amendment to leave out the words "or otherwise," which will have precedence.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

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