circumstances, he believed-and he ap- I was sure that none of those gentlemen pealed to the hon. Member for Tralee would have selected any tenant for evic(the O'Donoghue) to confirm him-that, tion unless he were perfectly aware that on the whole, the rents were not only fair, such tenant was able to pay. but moderate; and if any persons were ejected, it was only because they were well known to be able to pay, but would not. He might add that in the autumn of 1879, when the land agitation was beginning, a dignitary of the Roman Catholic Church remarked to him"There are landlords in Kerry who are getting credit for reductions of 20, 30, and 40 per cent, and their rents are higher than Lord Kenmare's, without any reduction."

THE O'DONOGHUE, in asking permission to withdraw the Motion, expressed his regret at finding it necessary to make a Motion of that kind. He wished to say one word to this effect. He could not corroborate the statement which had been made by his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Cork County (Colonel Colthurst). He was

aware that the tenants on Lord Kenmare's estate did not regard their rents as moderate, and that in the last few

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

POLICE SUPERANNUATION-LEGISLA

MR. FINIGAN stated that, of 88 evic-years the rents had been raised 50 or 60 tions which had been carried out in a per cent. certain district in Leitrim since January last, 73 had been ordered by landlords who were justices of the peace. In the face of these facts, how, he would ask, could the people be expected to respect the law, or the Government who administered the law, and who, after admitting the necessity of putting a stop to wholesale evictions, allowed them to go on unchecked?

MR. MACARTNEY pointed out that until hon. Members from Ireland could determine how rents could be recovered without evictions, it was unfair for them to characterize the landlords as cruel and unjust. Having regard to the number of landlords in Ireland, and the number of evictions, it would be found that a very small proportion of tenants had been proceeded against in this manner, and then only after repeated attempts had been made by the landlords to recover rents from tenants who could pay if they would. The landlords, it should be remembered, were not all of the exalted rank of Lord Kenmare. There were a great many small landlords who had nothing but their land to live on, and who had either to press for their rents or starve.

MR. TOTTENHAM said, that, like the hon. and gallant Member opposite (Colonel Colthurst), he was unwilling to intervene in this discussion; but as many of the persons who had been mentioned were personal friends of his own he felt bound to say something in their behalf. In the cases of all the gentlemen who had been named, the evictions which had been referred to did not represent 5 per cent of the tenants in arrear on those various estates; and he

TION.

MR. A. ELLIOT asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether the Bill, which the House has been informed is in preparation by the Government dealing with Police Superannuation, will be introduced during the present Session ?

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT: Sir, the Government are ready to introduce a Bill upon this subject if there is an opportunity of doing so. In the actual state of the Notice Paper it will be impossible to introduce the measure at the present moment; but the Government are anxious to deal with this matter very much on the principle pointed out by the Commission on Metropolitan Police.

ARMY-THE BARRACKS AT NEW ROSS.

MR. REDMOND asked the Secretary of State for War, If the statement in the "Times" of June 2nd is correct,

that

"Instructions have been given from the War Office to have the Military Barracks at New Ross, now occupied by a Company of 20th Hussars, fitted with portholes and looped for musketry; '

and, if so, upon what grounds such instructions were issued?

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN : Sir, a small sum of money has been authorized to be spent for the security of certain buildings in Ireland, of which the barrack at New Ross is one; but we have no details of the works which have been executed.

STATE OF IRELAND-EVICTIONS IN

ARRANMORE.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether it is true that the "Goshawk," one of Her Majesty's gunboats, has been employed in the work of assisting the serving of ejectment processes on the tenants in the island of Arranmore; whether the inhabitants of this island are described in the evidence of the Rev. Bernard Walker, P.P., of Burtonport, before the Bessborough Commission, as suffering in recent years from the combined effects of failure of the kelp trade and of the potato crop; whether the inhabitants are, as a consequence, described by Father Walker as

"Poor in the extreme, miserably clad, and compelled, in the case of one family, to sleep, without distinction of sex, in one bed for want of clothes;

and, whether he will sanction the employment of gunboats and sailors for the purpose of assisting in the eviction of subjects of Her Majesty in circumstances of such abject misery?

his own cognizance. In the same way, I hope he will not ask me any hypothetical questions in regard to employing gunboats and sailors. That is not in question, for there has been nothing of the kind for the purpose of assisting in evictions of subjects of Her Majesty.

MR. PARNELL asked the right hon. Gentleman, whether this gunboat Goshawk, which had been employed in carrying police for the purpose of assisting at evictions, was the same gunboat which, in the winter of 1879-80, was employed by the late Conservative Government in carrying food for the same people that the present Government was now attempting to evict?

[No reply was given to this Question.]

PROTECTION OF PERSON AND PRO-
PERTY (IRELAND) ACT, 1881-
LETTERS TO POLITICAL PRISONERS
(MR. HODNETT).

MR. HEALY asked Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, Whether it is true that Mr. Eager, Governor of Limerick Gaol, stopped on the 17th of May a letter addressed to a friend by one of the political prisoners (Mr. Hodnett, Chair

MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, with regard to the first part of the Question, the state of the case is as follows:-On the after-man of the Ballydehob Board of Guarnoon of the 31st of May, the Goshawk dians) because of some statement therein gunboat left Gweedore for the Island that a magistrate who had expressed a of Arranmore with a party of constabu- hope from the bench that "the people lary and a magistrate, who intended to would soon get powder and ball" was go to the island for the purpose of en- unfit for his position, if he will quote forcing process. She returned on the the exact words to the House and state morning of the 1st of June. The Ad- whether he approves the suppression of miral at Queenstown telegraphed yester- the letter; whether it is true that the day--and the information is rather more Governor detained several other letters complete than I was able to state to the addressed to Mr. Hodnett and, in at House yesterday-that there is no truth least one instance, refused to give him in the report that an affray had occurred the sender's name, so that the latter between her and the islanders. Beyond might be communicated with by Mr. that we do not know anything; but, un- Hodnett; whether the House can be doubtedly, it is true that to the extent informed of the language which caused of carrying a party of police the Goshawk the suppression in these instances, also was employed, and, as far as I am able upon what principle of censorship the to judge, properly employed. But the Governor acts, if his power or discretion rules of the Naval Service are very strict is uncontrolled; and, whether at least in regard to allowing the actual interven- the Government will give instructions tion of ships' companies in matters of these that letters addressed to political priprocesses. That is never allowed except soners when stopped shall be returned in cases of stringent necessity, and with to the senders with the passages objected careful precautions. As to the evidence to plainly marked, or that the gentlemen taken before the Bessborough Commis- imprisoned shall have the choice of resion, I respectfully hope the hon. Mem-ceiving them with these passages erased; ber will not insist upon making those and, if he can explain how it is that contents the subject of Questions to me, inquiries respecting matters affecting because they are matters entirely within Limerick take so long to answer?

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. Member, when he made use of the word "mendacious," applied it to a Member of the House, he is clearly out of Order, and I must ask him to withdraw this word.

THE O'DONOGHUE: I rise to ask you, Sir-[Loud cries of "Order" and Withdraw!"]

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR "mendacious" is a word that can be IRELAND (Mr. LAW): Sir, letters to properly applied by one Member of the and from Mr. Hodnett, at present im- House to another? prisoned in Limerick Gaol, under the Act for the better Protection of Person and Property in Ireland, have been detained by the prison authorities in the exercise of their discretion, and with the sanction of the Executive in Ireland; it being considered that these letters were of such a character as to justify that course. The discretion of the Governor of the gaol in such cases is not absolute, but is subject to the review of the Government. I must decline to undertake, on the part of the Government, the responsibility suggested, that letters which are thus detained shall be returned to the sender with the objectionable passages marked, or that the letters shall be delivered with the passages erased.

MR. HEALY asked, whether the right hon. and learned Gentleman would take steps to enable prisoners to be informed from whom the letters came that were stopped?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. LAW): That is entirely outside my province.

MR. HEALY said, he would renew the Question, as it must be in somebody's province

STATE OF IRELAND-REPORTED OUT-
RAGES IN GALWAY-RULES OF DE-
BATE-SUSPENSION OF A MEMBER.

MR. TOTTENHAM: I beg to ask the Attorney General for Ireland a Question of which I have given him private Notice-namely, Whether Lord Dunsandle's son, Mr. Daly, was fired at and wounded yesterday near his father's residence, at Loughrea, in Galway; whether this is not the third murder or attempt to murder within the last three weeks in the same locality attributable to the Land League-[Loud cries of "Oh!" and "Order!"]

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: I rise, Sir, to a point of Order. I wish to ask, whether it is not one of the Standing Rules of this House that no Question to a Minister shall contain an expression of opinion with regard to matters in dispute. The hon. Member, in attributing-as I would put it, mendaciously attributing -to the Land League the responsibility of-Loud cries of "Order! "I

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE: I wish to ask you, Sir, whether the word

MR. SPEAKER: I cannot allow any interposition.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: I will withdraw the word, Sir, and I will substitute for it " inaccurately." The hon. Member, in inaccurately attributing to the Land League the responsibility for outrages which the League has done its best to repress

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member has not addressed himself to the point I have raised, that, having applied the expression "mendacious" to a statement made by a Member of the House, he is called upon to withdraw it. [Cries of "He did!"]

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: I am afraid, Sir, my words did not reach your ears. I did withdraw the word "mendaciously," and substituted inaccurately" for it. I wish to ask you, Sir, whether the hon. Member, in putting a Question to a Minister, is not violating a Standing Order of this House in attributing to the Land League organization responsibility for outrages which the League. repudiates, and which is, at any rate, a matter for discussion; and, secondly, whether it is in Order for an hon. Member to attribute responsibility for outrage to an organization the control of which is in the hands of hon. Members belonging to this Assembly?

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. Gentleman had placed on the Paper, in the ordinary way, the terms of the Question he proposed to submit to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, I should have considered it my duty to strike out such an expression of opinion.

MR. O'KELLY: I want to know, Sir, whether there is any protection in this House for hon. Members on these Benches against any Gentleman making statements which are calumnious and lying? Loud cries of "Order! and Name him!"]

46

MR. SPEAKER: I think, considering that I have called the attention of the

hon. Member for Galway to the lan- | had formerly used them himself, and guage which he has used, and which he reference was made to that former occahas very properly withdrawn, I am sion as a precedent. bound, after the more violent expression made use of by the hon. Member for Roscommon, to Name Mr. O'Kelly.

MR. GLADSTONE: I rise, Sir, to move that Mr. O'Kelly be suspended from the service of the House during the remainder of this Sitting.

MR. HEALY: Does that include the
Evening Sitting?

MR. GLADSTONE: Yes, Sir.
Motion made, and Question put,

"That Mr. O'Kelly be suspended from the service of the House during the remainder of this day's sitting."-(Mr. Gladstone.)

The House divided:-Ayes 188; Noes 14: Majority 174.-(Div. List, No. 227.) MR. SPEAKER then directed Mr. O'KELLY to withdraw, and he withdrew accordingly.

MR. JUSTIN MCARTHY: Mr. Speaker, if I am in Order, I beg leave to put to you a Question with regard to your recent ruling. Having a desire to obtain some clear understanding on the subject, I should like to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether it is not the fact that a Predecessor of yours in that Chair ruled that Lord Palmerston was not out of Order in using the words "calumnious and mendacious statements," if these words were applied to the statements and not to the Member using them?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member has asked me a Question as to a point of Order which is not now before the House. The House has suspended one of its Members during this day's Sitting for the use of the expression lying."

MR. JUSTIN MCARTHY: A "calumnious and lying statement."

MR. GLADSTONE: If it is not an impertinence on my part, I may say that I think I recollect the incident to which the hon. Member refers, and the statement which he has just made is only very partially accurate. The objection was to the word "calumnious," and that word was not used by Lord Palmerston, but by another Member. The House and Lord Palmerston objected to it. The word "mendacious" did not come into the case at all.

MR. JUSTIN MCARTHY: There were two occasions on which the words were used. On the second occasion Lord Palmerston objected to them; but he

Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: I must point out that this Question is altogether irrelevant. If the hon. Member desires to call attention to the matter, it is open to him to do so in the usual way.

MR. TOTTENHAM: In deference to what fell from you, Sir, I have altered the Question slightly to bring it within your ruling. It will now read as follows:-Whether Lord Dunsandle's son, Mr. Daly, was fired at and wounded at Loughrea yesterday; whether that is not the third murder, or attempt at murder, committed within the last three weeks in that locality; whether threatening posters, headed More to be murdered," had been put up extensively in that district yesterday and Wednesday; and I would also ask how long the Executive Government intend to permit the body called the Land League to carry on their operations? [Cries of "Order!"

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: I rise to a point of Order. I wish to ask you, Sir, if the hon. Member is in Order in re-introducing into this question any expression of opinion which you have formally ruled to be out of Order; and whether, in so doing, the hon. Member is not disregarding the ruling of the Chair, and, therefore, subjecting himself to the penalty of being Named?

MR. SPEAKER: If the terms of the Question put by the hon. Member were precisely those which he read before, and which were objected to, I do think it would be an irregularity on the part of the hon. Member.

MR. TOTTENHAM: The terms are not the same, Sir. [Cries of "Name him!"]

MR. SPEAKER: If the words were not the same I have nothing more to say.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Law): Sir, the only information which I have is probably that which is in the possession of the hon. Member. I have seen a statement in one newspaper, and in another newspaper I have seen a second statement which says that the report is not confirmed. I believe it is true that one or more personal attacks have been made in the district referred to. As to the threatening posters, I saw to-day in one of the morning papers that they had

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL:into this very serious state of things; I wish to ask the Government this Question. Is it or is it not the case that Quinlan Castle, near New Pallas, has been occupied by a body of tenantry for a period MR. A. M. SULLIVAN: May I ask of now nearly a week; that they have if hon. Members really know what this broken down the bridges which lead up so-called castle is? [Cries of "Order!"] to the place, and that they have success- I will put myself in Order by asking the fully resisted the combined forces of Government if they are aware that it military and police; and, whether a mili-consists of a couple of parts of walls tary detachment did not leave Dublin yesterday for the purpose of capturing the Castle?