posals made at the Conference of Berlin | of Prince Bismarck; and if the noble were adopted. Congratulations were ex- Earl asks me to believe in that means pressed at the time on the great rapidity of settling European difficulties, I am with which that decision was reached. I disposed to agree with him, and I hope confess I think it affords rather an that Prince Bismarck's authority will alillustration of the truth of the proverb ways be applied in an equally satisfactory "The more haste the less speed." manner. I cannot pass from this subAlthough I do not contest that the re-ject without expressing the hearty consults at last attained have been in the gratulations-which, I am sure, will be main satisfactory; and although I am concurred in by all Parties among usfar from denying that these conse- to the Greek nation on their improved quences are very largely due to the prospects, and the career which seems ability and the judgment which Mr. to be opened out to them. The noble Goschen displayed in the duties which Earl spoke, I think, with great wisdom he undertook-and I believe that men when he pointed out that it is now imof all Parties will join in congratulat- possible for anybody to say that full ing him on the result of his labours play to Greek energy and enterprize -I cannot agree with the noble Earl has not been afforded by the territory when he cites all this history as a signal which has been assigned to them by and satisfactory proof of the value and Europe. The friends and the enemies efficiency of his favourite idea of the of Greece alike must feel that if in European Concert. I think that the future Greece does not answer the anticoncert of Europe has been proved to cipations which so many in Europe have be an admirable instrument as long as enthusiastically formed about her, it will words and negotiations are concerned, be only on herself and on her own popubut that it has absolutely broken down lation that the responsibility must fall. whenever it came to deeds. When diplo. I earnestly hope that any evil forematic pressure was to be put upon the bodings in that respect will not be justiTurkish Government to induce it to adopt | fied by the event, and that the Greeks that line of Frontier, the European Con- may show a splendid contrast to the cert was very fairly maintained- at Turkish administration which they releast, to all external appearance. But place. But whether Greece be successwhen it became necessary to resort to ful or not, I still would urge on this more stringent measures, the European House and on Her Majesty's GovernConcert gave way, because, as the noble ment not to place on it too confident or Earl said, all the Powers were not too exclusive a reliance as a means of equally sincere in their desire that the resisting that onward march of Slavonic results of the Conference should be encroachment which so many nations carried out. But that is the difficulty in Europe have reason to apprehend. I which the European Concert always has fear that the day when small nations, to meet. If the Powers were all equally however excellent their spirit, however sincere, it would, undoubtedly, be an in- free their institutions, can oppose an strument of unsurpassed vigour and effi- effective barrier to the encroachments ciency. But its very nature, involving, of great military Powers has passed or as it does, the consent of so many is rapidly passing away. The whole Powers differently situate as to their course of modern history, if we look interests and as to the Constitutional back to it, shows you a process of authority by which they are guided, consolidation incessantly going onmakes it always a matter of the ex-small nations constantly disappearing, tremest difficulty to bring them to join in and large nations growing more and any practical action; and, consequently, more powerful and menacing. And for ordinary purposes of European go-every assistance which the advance of vernment, it is a resource on which science gives to the concentration of it would be unwise to rely. The noble Earl cites these transactions as grounds for believing in the authority of the European Concert. For my part, I confess that, if I correctly followed his remarks, I think they are rather grounds for believing in the authority vast armies gathered from a widely extended population on a single spot adds to the difficulties with which small na tions have to contend in maintaining their place against the greater Empires. If it were possible to hope that any such thing as a federation of the hetero geneous nations which make up the Balkan Peninsula could ever be formed, perhaps on such a defence some expectations might be based. But I do not think that anybody can believe that so unlikely an amalgamation can take place. And in the absence of it you must not trusthowever much you may admire the qualities which distinguish the Greek race-you must not trust to small nations of that kind effecting the objects which even a nation like Turkey, with all its military power, is unable to secure. It is for you to maintain an unceasing vigilance for English interests which English power is alone able to sustain. arriving at a solemn decision, retrace the decisions at which it had just arrived. It did appear to him that if there was one way of bringing the European Concert into contempt, it was the way suggested. THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I never proposed that the Government should depart from the European Concert; but I said it would be wiser, before settling at the Conference the proposal which was made by myself and France, that the Government should obtain a greater knowledge of the feelings of the Turkish Government and population, with respect to whom that proposal was made. THE EARL OF ROSEBERY said, the noble Lord (Lord Houghton) complained THE EARL OF ROSEBERY said, the that the Government had not consulted feelings of the Turkish Government were the Turks before they made any propo- very well known; but he was sorry he sition on the Greek Frontier in the Berlin had mistaken the meaning of the noble Conference. The noble Lord and the Marquess, because he understood him to noble Marquess (the Marquess of Salis- have imputed rashness to the Governbury) professed to be extremely sur-ment. The European Concert had been prised at the course of proceedings; but he would have thought that the noble Marquess, who knew more of Turkish feeling than any person in that House, would have been the last person to express that surprise. Suppose the course had been taken that was suggested, and that the Government had waited to consult the Turks as to whether they wished or did not wish the surrender of these Provinces to Greece, what would have been the result? It was shown in every page of the Blue Books that the Turks, who had not lost their cunning, would have been able to prevent the solution of this problem. The noble Marquess had also said something as to the haste or rashness of the Government, on entering Office, proposing the cession of territory to Greece. He did not know as to the cession; but he believed they did lay before the Porte a proposal for a Conference to settle this matter. The Conference met, and the noble Marquess complained that the Government went behind to carry out the decisions of the Congress; and said that the policy pursued by Her Majesty's Government, if not discreditable, at least ended in a fiasco, because it caused the decision of the European Concert to be disregarded. | But look at the alternative which the cision of the Berlin Conference could noble Marquess suggested-namely, that Her Majesty's Government should proceed with the Conference, that the Powers should meet, and then, after The Marquess of Salisbury a good deal flouted that night, and the noble Lord who had introduced the subject said the smaller Powers of Europe were not admitted. They could only congratulate themselves on the proceedings of the European Concert. No one believed that Turkey would have given up an acre or a rood of ground if it had not been for the European Concert; and how could the Montenegrin_question have been settled if not for the European Concert? When it was remembered that the European Concert had resulted in the settlement of the Dulcigno and Greek difficulties, it seemed to him strange that they should hear the same complaint proceeding from the same quarter. He had read the Blue Book submitted to their Lordships, and he must congratulate the Government on its contents. It was not merely that they had extremely interesting des patches from Mr. Goschen, which breathed throughout common sense and determination, and which showed that had it not been for the policy of determination pursued by the Govern ment, together with the European Concert, this concession would not have been fulfilled. The Government, no doubt, would have been glad if the de have been adhered to; but the Committee over which he presided-the Greek Committee without acknowledging that the largest possible accession of territory to Greece had been obtained, saw that it was a fear for the consequences to the peace of Europe that led to that decision not being carried out. He did not believe, however, that any Member of that Committee, or that any subject of the King of the Hellenes, could read those Blue Books, and not acknowledge that the utmost possible concession of territory had been obtained from Turkey by the exertions of Her Majesty's Government. He did not know that any course of action could have obtained a better result for Greece, because it was all very well for those who belonged to what the noble Lord called the Hellenic Party to refer as to what were the limits of their wishes and aspirations; but it was the duty of the Government to look first to the great interest of the Empire-especially in this question. What was their interest in this question? Surely it was the European Concert, which had been so much decried that night. There was one Power who thought moral compulsion should be applied to the Porte. Well, moral compulsion applied to the Porte usually produced immoral results -that was to say, no result at all. He tendered his congratulations to the noble Earl (Earl Granville), not merely for having given an adequate concession of territory to Greece, and not merely for having preserved the peace of Europe, but also for having kept together a most splendid yet efficient instrument-the European Concert. The she might have a large extension of territory. The noble Marquess has accused the present Government of having acted with haste. The noble Marquess, however, after setting his hand and seal to that which was the commencement of the whole affair, left this question for two years without any progress being made; and it seemed to him (the Earl of Kimberley) that it was then a matter that required some haste, because if haste had not been shown in resuming it there might have been war in the East. The Government, in proposing that the matter should be resumed, were simply acting in accordance with the 24th Article of the Treaty of Berlin. noble Marquess could not refrain from making his usual protest against the European Concert. The noble Marquess appeared to have a singular idea of diplomacy. For his own part, he had always regarded diplomacy as a contrivance for avoiding the application of force; but the noble Marquess seemed to think that diplomacy was useless without a resort to force. It was not often that the great European Powers could be induced to unite in order to employ force. If they indeed united with that object they would be all-powerful, and there would be no more wars. The real use of the European Concert was to bring diplomatic pressure to bear, and, in the present case, that pressure had been brought to bear most satisfactorily. He was not sanguine enough to hope that the European Concert could operate THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY said, universally to solve all international he thought it singular that the noble difficulties; but, nevertheless, if its efforts Marquess, who complained that the Go-were successful in a few cases only, they vernment had not first ascertained the views of the Powers and nationalities concerned, had himself afforded an iustance of the success that might have been arrived at in that way when he acted in accordance with his own prin- LORD STRATHEDEN AND CAMPciples in 1878. Singularly enough the BELL, in reply, said: My Lords, I shall noble Marquess then suggested as ex- only detain the House by one or two tensive a line as was afterwards proposed remarks the noble Earl the Secretary at the Berlin Conference; but what be- of State for Foreign Affairs has rendered came of that proposal? The noble Mar- necessary. Although absolving him from quess practically got no answer on it blame, I was not aware, as he supposes, from the Porte. That was what always that I had lavished eulogy upon him. happened in negotiations with the Porte. But now, at least, he has well merited The initiatory proceedings in this matter the praise of courage in venturing to set were of more importance than any sub-up his own authority against that of sequent transaction could be; and by the original proceeding at the Berlin Congress Grecce was led to expect that would be highly beneficial to Europe; whereas if questions were left to the action of only one or two of the Powers, he should despair of preserving the peace of Europe. Lord Stratford de Redcliffe on such a point as the Greek Frontier. He has also won a title to the character of pru dence in not attempting to-night to uphold the European Concert against the various reproaches it elicits. The noble Earl professes inability to understand the drift of all my former observations. It may be resumed in a minute. I indicated that the Conference at Berlin was a flagrant and unpardonable error, which nearly led to war between Greece and the Sublime Porte; that the Greek Frontier was arranged at last, as it might have been at first, by German influence at Constantinople; that unless the so-called European Concert is dispelled the arrangement cannot be a lasting one; that it ought to be abandoned upon every ground which just ideas of foreign policy suggest to us. It now appears to be devoid of any special Treaty to consolidate it; so that, although the Motion is withdrawn on that account, it will not have been useless. Some noble Lords have been betrayed to-night into a rather intricate discussion on the merit or the inconvenience of the concerts organized in Europe. Let me suggest to them a practical criterion when any system of the kind is offered to their notice. Let them inquire and ascertain whether the concert is designed to check aggressive power, or, on the contrary, to aid it. completely misrepresented him. The words he used were "In five years of long service, from 1866 to 1870, inclusive, deducting those who rejoined, the desertions averaged 2,158, and in an equal period of short service they averaged 2,450, being a yearly increase of 302." LORD STRATHNAIRN said, that direct desertions from regiments had been always considered a very serious crime and dangerous, and an indication of bad discipline and feeling, want of esprit de corps when it became extensive. But it was not astonishing, for all officers of regimental experience, not the experience of officers who had served on the Staff only, and authors of one-sided articles in periodicals, but the officers who had studied and knew the feelings of their men, their weak points, and their good points, had all along predicted that short service-that was, general service, which changed the soldiers continually from regiment to regiment, which offered no military future, but only 6d. a day for six years, with no prospect but a very uncertain civil employment, and then left them on the parė with nothing at all-could engender nothing but distaste for the Service. All the commandants of depôts that he had seen concurred in saying, speaking from Motion (by leave of the House) recruiting staff, that the Service and retheir own experience and that of their withdrawn. ARMY-DESERTIONS. OBSERVATIONS. cruiting had no worse enemies than the short service and Reserve discharged soldiers, and used language respecting both which would not bear repetition. LORD STRATHNAIRN said, he rose But while these authorities gave these to call attention to the statement made opinions as to short-service soldiers, they by the Under Secretary of State for War held very different opinions of the old on the 20th of June, that desertions had pensioners, who, they said, were the best fallen to 2,000 a-year under the short-recruiting sergeants, because they adservice system, whilst a War Office Re-vised the adventurous spirits of their turn laid before the House on the 19th of February 1880, gives the following result:-In 1874 there were 5,572 desertions, in 1875 there were 4,382, in 1876 there were 4,878, in 1877 there were 5,058, and in 1878 there were 5,406. These figures showed an annual average of 5,059 desertions, or more than 300 per cent than had been stated by the noble Earl. THE EARL OF MORLEY said, he thought he might save the noble and gallant Lord trouble by at once stating that what he had said on the occasion referred to, as the noble and gallant Lord had, unintentionally, no doubt, Lord Stratheden and Campbell districts and villages who they knew would make the best soldiers to enlist and serve the Queen faithfully in all those varied climes and countries where the English soldiers' lot led them, to obey their officers, and do their duty to their Queen and country, and before the enemy at any sacrifice; and then, if spared from death by climate or war, to return to their homes to independence from the workhouse given them by a generous country and grateful Sovereign. The second class of desertions was that from one regiment to another, and to many other regiments. But the worst remained to be told, and that was the HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, 30th June, 1881. MINUTES.]. PUBLIC BILLS-Ordered-First most dangerous-fraudulent enlistment. Statisticians said it applied to no less than one-third of the Army. He referred to recruits who swore that they were of the proper recruiting age when they were under that age. What chance had our youthful Army enlisting at 18 years of age, and then deluged up to one-third of their strength by perjured boys from 18 to 15, whose strength, when heavily loaded, was certain to collapse in marches and operations of war, and with it their moral powers and their courage? They had reinforced the Army by a Reserve which was not to fight except in wars with a foreign Power or in distant India. In either of these cases civil employment, the means of the existence of this Reserve, disappeared, and with it the Reserve. They had given the officers of the Army an education half military, half civil, and the half civil tainted by the competitive study of immoral and debasing literature-an education which he had repeatedly told their Lordships no honest Englishman would give his children. QUESTIONS. 1908 CUSTOMS-THE PORT OF EXETER. MR. NORTHCOTE asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, If it is the fact that the Board of Customs have declined to recommend to the Treasury that Exeter should be made a testing port; are the Treasury aware that only eleven ports and bonding towns in the United Kingdom contribute a larger Customs Revenue than Exeter; is it correct that the bonding towns of Plymouth, Southampton, Newhaven, Folkestone, and Gloucester contribute altogether less Customs Revenue than Exeter alone, and that the total revenue of the last three towns is less than the amount of duty on direct importations into Exeter in spite of the difficulties raised by the Customs as to the transshipment of cargoes from the Bight through the Exeter Canal; whether the Treasury are aware that great expense is entailed on the Crown and on the wholesale wine and spirit merchants of Exeter through the necessity of sending THE EARL OF MORLEY said, it was unnecessary to answer the speech of the noble and gallant Lord, inasmuch as it was based upon an unintentional misinterpretation of a speech which he made in their Lordships' House a few days ago. The point in which the noble and gallant Lord had misunderstood him in speaking of desertions was in reference to the men who, having deserted, had rejoined the Service in other branches. He had not used the words "to other branches," which would obviously be inapplicable. What he said was that in five years preceding the short service, deducting those men who rejoined the Army, the average annual number of de-samples to I'lymouth to be tested; can sertions was 2,158, and since the period of the short service 2,460, making an increase of 302. These figures were absolutely correct. It was, if he might say so, absurd to talk of waste in the Army without taking into account the total number of deserters who rejoined. PETROLEUM (HAWKING) BILL [HI.L.] A Bill to regulate the hawking of Petroleum and other substances of a like nature-Was presented by The Earl of DALHOUSIE; read 1. (No. 139.) House adjourned at Eight o'clock, he state what would be the cost of making Exeter a testing port; and, would it exceed that already necessitated by keeping officers from other ports at Exeter for considerable periods of time at extra charges of subsistence; and, will he reconsider the decision stated to have been arrived at by the Treasury on the Customs advice? LORD FREDERICK CAVENDISH: The question of making Exeter a testing port has been carefully considered, and we have come to the conclusion that no case has been made out for doing so. The statements in the Question are only partly accurate, the duty on direct im |