Mr. Aylward:

Q. You are one of the stenographers, Miss Johnson, in the office of the Governor?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was on duty there on the 7th and 8th of January last? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was this Exhibit 4 prepared by you, Miss Johnson? A. Yes, sir, it was.

Q. Were those copies manifold copies or is that an original copy that you prepared?

A. Originals.

Q. And do you remember how many original copies you prepared?

A. Well, I believe there was only one original.

Just that one. Q. Well, what I meant, did you run off three or more copies at the same time with this?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you left the time at which the order was made blank, did you not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was that inserted by you in pen, or by somebody else? A. By somebody else.

Q. Who dictated the order, Miss Johnson?

A. Nobody dictated it. It was given to me written out.

Q. And who gave it to you written out?

A. I don't know what his name is.

Senator Browne: Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. If it is not proper practice in asking questions to address them to the speaker or the chair and then let the chair put them to the I call your attention to the manual of Parliamentary Practice, the one that has been adopted by this body, manual on page 54, to be found in the Blue Book. I guess this last Blue Book does not contain it, it is 1909, but I will pass it up to the chair. It says:

"EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES.

"When any person is examined before a committee, or at the bar of the House, any member wishing to ask the person a question must address it to the speaker or chairman, who repeats the question to the person, or says to him: 'You hear the question-answer it!" etc.

Senator Randolph: Rule 108 of the Senate rules provides that the parliamentary practice comprised in Jefferson's Manual shall be the standard in all cases to which they are applicable and in which they are not inconsistent with these rules. is Rule 108, page 141, directory and manual.

Senator Browne: That is the rule. Is there anything inconsistent with any of our rules. If they are I would like to have the gentleman quote the rule that is inconsistent.

Senator Husting: I understand that is the practice regard ing question by members.

Senator Husting: I understand this is a question by attor ney and counsel. The rules does not apply.

Senator Browne: In other words, according to counsel's theory, an attorney that comes onto this floor has more rights than a member, an employed attorney, and that means of course, that a partisan in the matter can have a more favorable procedure and can have more privileges than a member of this house can have. If that is the rule, I want to know it, and will say it is a peculiar one.

Senator Randolph: That is the rule under Senate Resolu tion No. 8, adopted by the senate this morning. We adopted that. Your Jefferson Manual don't apply to that rule under that resolution we are working under.

Senator Browne: I would like to have a ruling, and if the chairman hasn't got the Jefferson Manual I will send it up. The Chairman: I have the manual.

Senator Browne: You find the section I refer to, do you! The Chairman: Section 13, "Examination of witnesses. Senator Browne: It is the examination of witnesses.

Senator H. C. Martin: In an effort to straighten this matter out, I would like to make this suggestion, that under the res olution, attorneys can appear in behalf of an interested party, not and they can put the questions. If the questions are pertinent the chairman of the committee can object, or any member of the committee can object, and that practically covers the whole ground. If a member asks the question, then the rule will be followed as quoted. If the attorney asks the question, any member of the committee, or the chairman of the committee, can object because the question is not pertine rat.

Senator Randolph: The committee decides.

Senator H. C. Martin: The committee decides:

Senator Browne: I would like to ask the senator a question. If there is anything in our resolution that says that or that gives anything that can be interpreted as saying that, or anything that can be interpreted as giving an attorney we have invited here any more rights than we have got.

Senator H. C. Martin: No more rights except that the resolution gives the attorney the right to appear.

Senator Randolph: And to present testimony.

Senator H. C. Martin: And to examine the witnesses, but you have a right to object at any time to the question asked, and then the committee itself, or the chairman first, will rule upon the pertinency of the question.

The Chairman: The chairman would not like it to be made obligatory, to be put to the hardship, by any member of the committee, to repeat the question as put by the counsel, and it would be a hardship for the member or for the chair to do that. Therefore the Chair will rule that in this case the counsel may put the questions direct to the witnesses and any member of the committee has a perfect right to object to the question put, but the Chair would not like to make it obligatory upon a member, or the Chair himself, to repeat questions put to the witnesses by counsel.

Senator H. C. Martin: Unless objection is made.

The Chairman: I will accept the suggestion.

Senator Browne: Now, what about members asking questions? Do you have to put those questions? Or does a member have the same privilege the attorney does?

The Chairman: The Chair will rule that the member has at least equal privilege here with the counsel.

Senator Browne: I thank the Chair for the ruling.

The Chairman: The Chair accepts. Counsel may proceed. Mr. Aylward:

Q. Do you know in whose handwriting it was, Miss Johnson? A. I am not familiar with the handwriting.

Q. Did you preserve the copy, the original order, copy, given to you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know why it was you left the date or the hour, when the order was made, blank?

A. No, sir.

Q. That was left blank in the order which was handed you, then?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you any way of fixing when it was you wrote the order, Miss Johnson?

A. I don't know the exact time. It was late in the morning of that day. Just before noon.

Q. Some time before noon?

A. Just before noon.

Q. Well, this is dated 11:50 o'clock. It was some time, then, before that, was it?

A. Just before that, I should say.

Mr. Aylward: That is all.

The Chairman: Has any member any question to ask the

witness?

Senator Ackley: Might I ask again that this testimony be read by the stenographer? It is impossible for me to hear it. The Chairman: The stenographer will read the testimony. (The reporter thereupon read the testimony of the witness). Senator Randolph: I desire to ask the witness a question. The Chairman: You may do so.

Examined by Senator Randolph:

Q. Miss Johnson, was the person who handed this copy to you an employee of the Governor's office?

A. No, sir.

Mr. Aylward:

Q. Do you know in what office he was an employee?

A. His name is Mr. Belitz. I think it is B-i-l-i-t-z.

Q. He is an employee in the office of the Revisor of Statutes,

is he not?

A. I do not know where he is employed.

Mr. Aylward: That is all, as far as we are concerned.

FRANK L. CLARK, being first duly sworn, on oath testified

as follows:

Examined by Mr. Aylward:

Q. Mr. Clark, you are a reporter for the Madison Democrat!

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you on duty on the night or evening of January the 6th!

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you receive a telephone call from the Governor's office that evening?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was it telephoned you?

A. Mr. Wilbur.

Q. He holds what position?

A. Clerk for the Governor.

Q. And in response to that telephone did you go to the Governor's office?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And whom did you find there??

A. Mr. Wilbur.

Q. And did he then give you a statement of what had taken place in the Governor's office between Mr. Ekern and the Governor?

A. He gave me no statement. He told me the incident.

Mr. Aylward: Just speak a little louder so the senators can hear.

A. He gave me no statement. He just told me of the inci-dent that had occurred there before.

Q. And did he tell you of the ultimatum the Governor had given to Mr. Ekern?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you made a minute of it, did you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you made a report of it in the Democrat the next morning, did you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And is that report which you received from the Governor's clerk, upon being called there by him, a true statement of what he gave you?

A. As near as I could write it. I didn't write it down verbatim at the time.

Mr. Aylward: Just a little louder.

A. I didn't write it down at the time in exact words.

Q. Is there any doubt in your mind but what the important

6-S. J. Ap.