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Q. Did you prepare the order of dismissal, Miss Sims?
A. I did not.
Q. Who was the stenographer there that prepared the order?

A. I don't know who did it. I didn't see it done, but I suppose Miss Johnson, the other stenographer, did it. I didn't see it done. The first time I saw it was when it came back after Mr. Essman had served it.

Q. Miss Johnson is a stenographer in the Governor's office also?

A. Yes, sir. Mr. Aylward: That is all. I will say to the Chairman I asked Mr. Wilbur, before calling Miss Sims, if he could tell me who it was that prepared the order, and he was not able to tell me, and for that reason I was compelled to call Miss Sims.

Senator Ackley: Mr. Chairman, I ask that the testimony be read. I didn't hear it.

The Chairman: The witness' testimony will be read.
(The reporter thereupon read the testimony of the witness.)

Mr. Aylward: I will call Miss Johnson later. The order of removal has already been certified, I think to the secretary of state. It is simply a photographic copy, or some process, but we call attention of the committee now to the fact that the order of dismissal as certified here by the secretary of state, had and has no seal, and call attention to that in connection with the opinion of the Attorney General read here this morning as to the effect of the seal.

One of the things we rely on in court and rely on here is that a commission and order of removal by the governor is ineffectual unless it has the great seal of the secretary of state upon it, which has never been added to the order of removal, and we also call attention to the fact that in this copy it appears that it was signed at 11:50 o'clock. I will say to the chairman that the original typewriten copy, if it can be produced, should be produced, because that shows that the order of removal was already in typewriting except the time when it was issued and the time when it was issued, 11:50 o'clock was left blank. All the rest of it in typewriting, and that inserted with pen. As we think showing that the order was prepared prior to that time, and prior to the hearing.

We offer the copy that was served on the Commissioner, marked here “Ekern's Exhibit 4,'' showing that it is all in type

writing, except the time when it was issued, which was left blank, and then the time that the meeting was adjourned, 11:50, inserted with pen afterwards, clearly appears here. This also was the original order and it shows no seal of the secretary of state was ever added to it or filed until later. And further, that the return of the secretary of state read here this morning shows that no seal has ever been attached to the order of removal.

One thing, Mr. Chairman, that I have called the chair's attention to, and the committee's attention to, in starting, and that is that the section of the statute to which the complaint refers, Chapter 484 of the Laws of 1911, or Section 1966y provides the only ground upon which the Governor can remove the commissioner of insurance, and that is on the ground that he has acted on and under a political committee or as manager of any political campaign for any candidate of the party. That is the ground the Governor put the order of removal on, and that is the charge, that he acted as the manager of a campaign committee for the speaker of the Assembly, and one of our contentions is that there is no such committee recognized under our statute, and that the canvass, whatever it may be, for the election of a speaker of the House, does not constitute a political campaign. As we call attention to it later, the statute providing for the election of a speaker is the same as that providing for the sergeant-at-arms and the clerk, and that, in the contemplation of the election laws, the Corrupt Practices Act, and our statutes, whatever work is done preliminary to the election of a sergeant-at-arms, or the clerk, or the speaker, is not a political campaign, and therefore the Governor was wholly without jurisdiction to remove Ekern on the ground that he was manager of a political campaign.

Senator Burke: Mr. Aylward, one question. I have Section 1966y before me, and my understanding in reading that over some time ago was that there is no provision in the law of 1911 providing for the removal of the insurance commissioner.

VIr. Aylward: That is found, I think, Mr. Burke, in Section 970 of the Revised Statutes.

Senator Burke: I think that the statute removing an insurance commissioner, and all appointees of the Governor, who must be confirmed by the senate, will be found in the revision of 1898, so that my understanding is that in the law of 1911 there is no provision made there at all for removal of the commissioner. Simply cautions him not to mix up in politics, but provides no penalty.

Mr. Aylward: It does not say that, Senator. Simply says that he shall not act.

Senator Burke: As a participant under any party manager, or the interest of any candidate, and as I understand it, Mr. Aylward,-I may be misinformed—there is no penalty prescribed in the laws of 1911.

Mr. Aylward : You are right, Senator Burke. There is none, and it simply says the commissioner shall not engage in any business, and, in connection with that, then it says he shall not act as a member of or under any political committee, or manager of any political campaign. That is in 1966y providing for the appointment of the commissioner. What the Governor relied on was Section 970.

Senator Burke: That is in the new revision.

Mr. Aylward: Found here. “All officers, except senators in Congress and those specified in the preceding section, who are or shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, or by the legislature without the concurrence of the Governor, may, for official misconduct, habitual or wilful neglect of duty”—those are the two charges in this complaint, official misconduct, habitual or wilful neglect of duty—“be removed by the Governor, upon satisfactory proofs, at any time during the recess of the legislature, and the vacancy filled by appointment made by him until such vacancy shall be regularly supplied; but no such appointment shall extend beyond twenty days after the commencement of the next meeting of the legislature." That is the section.

Senator Burke: That is as I understand.

INGIRID JOHNSON, called as a witness, testified as follows:

Examined by Mr. Aylward :

Q. You are one of the stenographers in the office of the Gov. ernor?

A. Yes, sir.
The Chairman: May I suggest that the witnesses be sworn!
Mr. Aylward: Yes, we will be glad to have them.

(The witness, Ingirid Johnson, was thereupon sworn by the Chairman.)

Mr. Aylward:

Q. You are one of the stenographers, Miss Johnson, in the office of the Governor?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was on duty there on the 7th and 8th of January last ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was this Exhibit 4 prepared by you, Miss Johnson ?
A. Yes, sir, it was.

Q. Were those copies manifold copies or is that an original copy that you prepared ?

A. Originals.

Q. And do you remember how many original copies you prepared ?

A. Well, I believe there was only one original. Just that one.

Q. Well, what I meant, did you run off three or more copies at the same time with this?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you left the time at which the order was made blank, did you not?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was that inserted by you in pen, or by somebody else?
A. By somebody else.
Q. Who dictated the order, Miss Johnson ?
A. Nobody dictated it. It was given to me written out.
Q. And who gave it to you written out?
A. I don't know what his name is.

Senator Browne: Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. If it is not proper practice in asking questions to address them to the speaker or the chair and then let the chair put them to the witness? I call your attention to the manual of Parliamentary Practice, the one that has been adopted by this body, manual on page 54, to be found in the Blue Book. I guess this last Blue Book does not contain it, it is 1909, but I will pass it up to the chair. It says:

“EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES.

“When any person is examined before a committee, or at the bar of the House, any member wishing to ask the person a question must address it to the speaker or chairman, who repeats the question to the person, or says to him: “You hear the question/answer it!” etc.

Simply cautions him not to mix up in politics, but provides no penalty.

Mr. Aylward: It does not say that, Senator. Simply says that he shall not act.

Senator Burke: As a participant under any party manager, or the interest of any candidate, and as I understand it, Mr. Aylward, -I may be misinformed—there is no penalty prescribed in the laws of 1911.

Mr. Aylward: You are right, Senator Burke. There is none, and it simply says the commissioner shall not engage in any business, and, in connection with that, then it says he shall not act as a member of or under any political committee, or manager of any political campaign. That is in 1966y providing for the appointment of the commissioner. What the Governor relied on was Section 970.

Senator Burke: That is in the new revision.

Mr. Aylward: Found here. “All officers, except senators in Congress and those specified in the preceding section, who are or shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, or by the legislature without the concurrence of the Governor, may, for official misconduct, habitual or wilful neglect of duty?'—those are the two charges in this complaint, official misconduct, habitual or wilful neglect of duty—“be removed by the Governor, upon satisfactory proofs, at any time during the recess of the legislature, and the vacancy filled by appointment made by him until such vacancy shall be regularly supplied; but no such appointment shall extend beyond twenty days after the commencement of the next meeting of the legislature.” That is the section.

Senator Burke: That is as I understand.

INGIRID JOHNSON, called as a witness, testified as follows:

Examined by Mr. Aylward :

Q. You are one of the stenographers in the office of the Gov. ernor?

A. Yes, sir.
The Chairman: May I suggest that the witnesses be sworn!
Mr. Aylward: Yes, we will be glad to have them.

(The witness, Ingirid Johnson, was thereupon sworn by the Chairman.)

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