A. Mr. Thomas called me and told me Mr. Richards would call upon me in relation to another matter.

Q. Did you not say to Mr. Richards when he called that you wanted Mr. Johnson elected speaker?

A. Why, I had a considerable conversation with Mr. Richards and the speakership question was mentioned.

Q. And Mr. Richards came to you pursuant to your telephone to Mr. Thomas?

A. No, pursuant to the statement of Mr. Thomas that he would

come to see me.

Q. And you said "you know Richards, the fight is on; there can be no compromise. You must be for us or for the Governor; if you are for him you are not going to be with us. We are not going to let him have anything to say about this speakership."

A. I made the first part of that statement. I made the statement that the fight was on. That the question was between you and Senator LaFollette and that there couldn't be any middle ground.

Q. You didn't say you were going to beat me? Didn't you say that in effect?

A. I made this statement that I thought the speakership was of great importance in this contest, and-

Q. And did you say that you would see to it that I would not be permitted to have anything to say?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Didn't you say your side was going to win and my side lose?

A. No, I don't now that I said anything of the kind. I think I expressed the idea that Mr. Johnson was a strong candidate and likely to win.

Mr. Aylward: You say you did say that the fight is on. That was common knowledge and common newspaper talk ever since the matter of speakership came up?

A. Yes, and I referred to the general difference between the Governor and Senator La Follette; I didn't refer to the speakership; with, of course, the statement with regard to the fight has been on for some time; it is purely a political contest.

Q. When you said there could be no middle ground you meant simply the discussion of the general situation? A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the fact when you said there could be no middle ground?

A. I meant in this general contest whatever it was.

Governor: What more did you say? There was more than Mr. Richards and Judge Rosa there, wasn't there? You were trying to pursuade them to vote for your candidate?

Mr. Aylward: I object to that as assuming that he had a candidate.

A. I don't know how the matter came up. tioned and Hull was mentioned.

Goff was men

Q. And what did you mean by saying the fight was on and

one side or the other must be beaten in this contest?

A. I presume I had in mind the general situation.

Q. Do you mean to deny you were seeking to control the speakership?

A. Of course not.

Q. What do you mean by that?

A. We were discussing the general political situation. Q. Isn't it true that what you said was to influence them for the man you wanted elected?

A. No, that is not true. I had a broader purpose in mind. Q. Mr. Ekern, haven't you been busy in this campaign? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you deny having written letters in this speakership

contest?

A. I don't write many letters. I don't recall writing any letters in the matter. You are asking whether I have written any letters referring to the speakership? It is possible it may have been mentioned. As a matter of fact, I have been asked about it. I have talked with some, but not many.

Q. Haven't you talked along the line saying this fight was

on?

Mr. Aylward: He hasn't said he ever said that.

A. No, I haven't talked that, and so far as any statement that you shouldn't have anything to say, I don't think I have had anything to say, because I have always been scrupulous

so far as you were concerned.

Q. And you felt free to support any candidate you pleased the same as I did in that matter, and had the same rights as

I in the matter?

political committee and take the management of a campaign; A. Well, no, not the same rights because you can go on a

I can't.

Mr. Aylward: When you refer to the rights

Governor: Now, please don't ask any more questions on that line.

Mr. Aylward: What do you refer to in that matter when you say you exercise the rights you understood you had?

A. The rights any citizen would have to have an opinion on political matters and to express them. I have never understood that the expression of an opinion was engaging in the management of a political campaign. I helped draw the corrupt practice act.

Q. What is the fact, Mr. Ekern, as to whether you have been guilty of any misconduct or wilful neglect of duty as commissioner?

A. I have not.

Q. What is the fact as to whether since you were appointed as commissioner you have served on or under the political campaign of L. L. Johnson?

A. I have not served on any committee or as manager of political campaign of L. L. Johnson. So far as I know, Mr. Johnson managed his own campaign.

Q. What is the fact, Mr. Ekern, as to whether any complaint from the Governor's office or any other office prior to the filing of this paper this morning, with respect to neglect of any duty on your part?

A. There has never been any complaint with respect to neglect of duty aside from that stated there.

Q. Or that any complaint of wilful misconduct as commissioner of insurance on your part, has there been any complaint of any kind?

A. Excepting this matter which came up Monday evening, was the first intimation that I had there was any question or criticism of anything I have done.

Q. You may state, Mr. Ekern, what conversation you had with the Governor in the office here on Monday evening?

Governor: Make it brief, this hearing must be over by twelve o'clock.

Mr. Aylward: May I ask the court why we must conclude before noon?

Governor: I have already given sufficient reasons.

Mr. Aylward: State, Mr. Ekern, what the conversation was and what occurred between you and the Governor at the Gov. ernor's office on Monday evening?

A. I was sitting in my office about nine o'clock with Senator Scott and the telephone bell rang and Mr. Wilbur asked me if I would come to the Governor's office. I said I would and soon afterwards Mr. Essman called me up and said the Governor wanted to see me. I told him Wilbur had notified me. As soon as I could I came over; there was somebody with the Governor when I came in. I waited a little while; then the Governor came out of this office and Mr. Wilbur went in and I went in and the Governor. It was just after the inaugural and I suggested I thought the Governor must be tired after the day and he said something about being reasonably tired, and then he asked me what I knew about the speakership. I said I don't know as anybody knows anything about it but I just met Hull over here and he says he is nominated and elected. He claims he has 20 votes. He says that is enough. He says what do you know about the others? I said I don't know anything. He says does L. L. Johnson think he is going to be elected? I said yes, of course he does, they all think they are going to be elected. "Well," he says, "I understand that you are running headquarters for him at the Avenue Hotel." I said no, that isn't true, and he says you have had something to do with the headquarters. I told him I called Mr. Gifford on the telephone and had spoken for There was some further questions about the rooms and I told the Governor that was all I had to do with it and then he switched over to some question about who I was supporting. I told him of course I favored Mr. Johnson, and then the Governor said "I understood that you have been telling members there was a contest on between me and other men in the capitol

the rooms.

my

candi

and that I had no right to name the speaker or that date ought not to be elected." That was about the substance of the statement. I said "No, Governor, I suppose what you mean is that I said there was a fight on; I also said I didn't think you ought to dictate the speakership." I am not sure whether it was just at that point or a little later he asked me if I didn't know I had violated the law and demanded that I proceed to close Mr. Johnson's headquarters. He said "You must close Mr. Johnson's headquarters at the Avenue Hotel tonight and you must from tonight withdraw your support from Mr. Johnson or any participation in this contest and if you do not I will

remove you from the office of commissioner of ir surance.

Governor: Did you do anything about closing the head quar

ters?

A. Have I done anything about closing the headquarters? Governor: You understood the question; don't repeat it. A. As I stated to you that night there was nothing for me to do about closing them.

Mr. Aylward: I want to make it of record. I am not satisfied to have this evidence closed here at all.

Mr. Ekern: I want to make a personal appeal for some fairness and justice and the Governor has just brought up only the very first part of this conversation. In the last part of this conversation I stated; the Governor said at the close of this ultimatum, that ended our interview. I said "Governor, you don't mean that". I said "I have been scrupulous in observing the law and it is my intention to do so; I have also complied to the strictest construction anyone has put upon it and I propose to do that in the future and as Governor of the state I am willing to do anything that can properly be done that you say." I said here I will call—

Governor: You need not go into that

Mr. Aylward: I want this of record; your reporter is not tak ing it all. Just take it all.

Governor: I don't care to hear any more of that. I know what happened. It isn't as though you were talking to a man not present at that time.

Mr. Ekern:

I want to make this a matter of record. I said I would call Mr. Gifford on the telephone at the Avenue Hotel and tell him I had nothing to do with those rooms and you said no, that was not satisfactory, that I must go to the Avenut Hotel and close those headquarters that night.

Governor What I said was you had opened them aid you must close them.

Mr. Ekern: I denied I opened them and not only that, Governor, but you insisted that I, in spite of my saying I had nothing to do with it, should go to the Avenue Hotel because I—

Governor: I said to you at once if Johnson is there you put him there. If someone else put him there I would have no right to ask them but I have a right to ask you to undo what has been done and said you must close the headquarters you have opened. I don't care to hear any more testimony or take any more time in this matter.