A. No, I would not.

Q. Do you recall whether or not the Governor at that time and in that interview with you on Sunday said right out that he intended to remove Mr. Ekern?

A. Oh, I don't know as I should put it that strongly. I would say this, that the Governor did not consult the parties present as to the removal of Mr. Ekern. What he consulted me about was the qualifications and what I thought of Mr. Anderson.

Q. But he did leave with you the impression that he would ultimately discharge Mr. Ekern from office, remove him?

A. I would say this, that these impressions, it is a little dif ficult I would say this, that he presented very deeply the ac tivity that he thought Mr. Ekern had been guilty of.

Examined by Senator Linley:

Mr. Haugen, at the time you had this talk with the Governor in which he intimated that he might remove Mr. Ekern, were Mr. Anderson's qualifications talked over at that time? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were asked about it at that time?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your recollection is

A. (interrupting) Let me say to you that the removal of Mr. Ekern was merely a preliminary statement he made before he brought up the question of Mr. Anderson's qualifications. Q. Both things were talked about at the same time, they both occurred at the same time?

A. Well, he asked my opinion as to Mr. Anderson. He did not ask my opinion as to the other.

Q. But he intimated that he was going to remove Ekern and already had that in mind?

A. Yes, that he had it in mind.

Q. And asked you about the qualifications of Mr. Anderson!

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, how long after that was it that you had

with Mr. Anderson about the subject?

A. Saturday forenoon.

Q. How?

A. Saturday forenoon. The Saturday forenoon after the

legislature convened.

Q. Do you know of any political activity of Mr. Ekern yourself?

A. No, sir.

Q. In the speakership matter?

A. No, I don't, except newspaper reports. That is, newspaper reports-I should explain that, probably. It was remarked in the office that when a few men were together conferring about politics Mr. Ekern was generally one of the number, and he was down at the-reported in the papers anyway to have been down at the National Convention, throughout the convention, or a large part of it.

Q. I mean about the speakership?

A. No, I know of nothing, no.

Q. Nothing in the papers at that time?

A. No, no. You put it in a general way and I answered your question in that sense.

Senator Linley: That is all.

Senator Kileen: Before we close hearing I wanted to ask Mr. Ekern a question. He promised to bring in the amount of expense of L. L. Johnson, and I notice that the telegram he spoke of in his testimony is not in the record, so I would like. to have both of those things. He promised yesterday to bring in the amount of the moneys drawn by Mr. Johnson as examiner (to Mr. Ekern) in your office, and you also stated that the telegram that passed between yourself and Mr. Anderson is in the record. I am informed it is not in the record.

Mr. Aylward: Senator, it is in the record with the order of removal. That was offered the first day.

Mr. Olbrich: Incorporated in the order of the suspension of Anderson.

Senator Kileen: I would like to have the original telegram put in the record, and like to submit it to Mr. Ekern and ask him if it is the telegram.

Chief Clerk: The order of suspension contains what is the substance of the telegram.

Senator Kileen: I would like to have the telegram itself. Mr. Olbrich: That question was not up.

Mr. L. A. Anderson: I have a copy here, of the three telegrams.

(Hands paper to Mr. Ekern).

Mr. Ekern: If you have a copy here I will look at it. (After examining the said paper): Mr. Chairman, my telegram to Mr. Anderson I think is copied in the letter of removal. Mr. Anderson's verbatim telegram, he says he has a copy here, which I take it is correct, as far as my recollection goes. Mr. Anderson can say whether it is or not.

Mr. Anderson: Yes.

Senator Kileen: I will ask it to be read into the record, both telegrams and the reply. Was there a reply?

Mr. Ekern: This is Mr. Anderson's reply. My telegram I quoted in the letter of removal so that is already referred to. This telegram was received-shall I read it?

Senator Kileen: Read it into the record.

Mr. Ekern: (Reading)

"Hon. II. L. Ekern,

Madison, Wis.

Sioux City, Jan. 15, 1913.

"If you have been legally removed I shall accept if legally appointed. Have not sought appointment, nor shall I make any move until fully satisfied of legality. If it must be made I trust you would sooner see me appointed than a stranger. Hope you have no objection to this.

L. A. Anderson."

Senator Kileen: I will now ask for that account. Mr. Ekern: I did not understand the chairman last night to request me to produce that account. I will be very glad to have it sent up. Is that satisfactory?

Senator Kileen: I did not ask you because you offered tɔ do it, and I accepted your offer. You offered to produce it. Mr. Ekern: That was a misunderstanding then, but I will send right down and have it made up if that is agreeable to the senator.

Mr. Aylward: I do not care to examine the witness.
The Chairman: Any further questions by any member of

the committee?

Senator Cunningham: I move you the committee do now

arise.

Senator Randolph: I hope the senator from the 22nd will just withdraw that question for one moment.

Senator Cunningham: I withdraw it for a moment.

Senator Randolph: Mr. Chairman, I move you that the communication sent by His Excellency the Governor yesterday morning be inserted into the records of this investigation, so that we will have it in the report of the proceedings of our investigation.

Senator Husting: Mr. Chairman, do I understand this will conclude all proceedings in this matter. I understand Mr. Ekern and all the parties concerned were requested to appear here by counsel, and the resolution was adopted to that effect. Now Mr. Ekern has come here with his counsel, and the duty of counsel is not only to examine witnesses but also to review the testimony adduced at the hearing, and I think it a matter of justice to Mr. Ekern, and a matter of courtesy to his attorneys, that they should be given a reasonable time in which to present the evidence which has been adduced here before this committee. The evidence has been somewhat voluminous, and it seems to me it will not only be proper but of aid to the committee in arriving at a solution of this matter, to hear the counsel of Mr. Ekern who now are here and ready to present his side of the matter. I trust the senate will not foreclose Mr. Ekern or his counsel, after having expressly invited them here to present their case, to present the same in a proper

manner.

Senator Randolph: I do not want to rise to a point of order on the senator from the 13th, but I think my motion is before the House, that that communication sent from the Governor be inserted as a part of this record. I do not think action has been taken yet. Has the Chair decided that it put the motion?

The Chairman: The motion is before the committee at this time. Gentlemen, you have heard the motion of the senator from the 15th that the communication of the Governor to the senate be inserted as part of the record in the investigation by the committee.

Senator Culbertson: The senator from the 14th instead of from the 15th.

The Chairman: The motion I referred to is the motion of the senator from the 15th. Are you ready for the question? Those who favor the motion will say aye, those opposed no. The ayes have it, and the motion is carried.

Senator Bosshard: Mr. President, I desire to offer a substitute motion and resolution in place of the motion proposed by the senator from the 14th. I think it covers practically, at least one feature covered by the senator's motion.

The Chairman: The motion of the senator from the 14th I think is properly before the committee at this time.

Senator Bosshard: I offer the motion here as a substitute motion.

The Clerk: Senator Bosshard offers as a substitute motion, amendment, for the motion made by the senator from the 14th, the following:

"Resolved, by the Committee of the Whole that the testimony of no further witnesses be taken in this hearing.

"Resolved, further, that privilege be given to the members of the senate to discuss the evidence taken in this hearing in pursuance to senate resolution No. 8, and that the attorneys for each party to said controversy be given the opportunity to address the senate, the time of argument of counsel to be limited to one hour."

The Chairman: Would you have it understood, senator, 15 one hour for each party?

Senator Bosshard: An hour for each party to the controversy. That is, if more than one attorney speaks the two of them combined to limit it to one hour, not more than an hour's argument by counsel on either side.

The Chairman: The question is on the motion of the gentleman from the 32nd. Are you ready for the question. (The question was called for).

Senator Browne: I am opposed to this substitute amend Iment and in favor of the motion as it was before amendment. I am opposed to the substitute amendment for the reason w have taken up considerably more time than we expected when we started to take it up. This controversy has assumed a broader field than any senator here I think expected it to reach. We have shown all the courtesy to all parties entitled to it here, and I think this senate, composed of thirty-three members, is supposed to consider matters of great importance and consider those matters by discussing them upon the floor here of this senate without the help of any paid attorneys. I think that this senate is capable of discussing this matter,