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Q. Did Mr. Johnson have a campaign committee, so-called ?

Q. Mr. Beedle, you testified that Mr. Ekern was a very hard working official, and without doubt he put in more hours than any other man in the Capitol. You did not have in mind any

HERMAN L. EKERN, recalled, having been heretofore sworn, Mr. Aylward: I just wish to ask Mr. Ekern one question

Q. This letter of January 2nd, Mr. Ekern, addressed Douglas Anderson, was that in response to a letter he had

A. If it has been is it without my knowledge.

Q. Well, you are there in Mr. Ekern's office all the time, aren't you?

A. And my desk is in his private room.

Q. Has there any work, political work, been done for Mr. Johnson from that office, either by correspondence or by telephone, or by personal solicitation, so far as you know?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. At my request you caused an examination of the letter files in the department to be made to ascertain whether there is any correspondence there in relation to this speakership, did you not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And was the letter here produced by Mr. Ekern the only one that was found ?

A. It was the only one that was found.
Q. That was the letter to Mr. Anderson, was it?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Has anyone been called to the office for the purpose of consultation on the speakership matter?

A. Not to my knowledge.

A. I have no knowledge of any campaign committee that Mr. Johnson may have had.

Mr. Aylward: I think that is all.

Examined by Senator Randolph : members of the senate, did you?

A. I think it is self-evident that I did not. testified as follows:

Examined by Mr. Aylward : in reference to this letter. written to you?

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A. Yes, that was following out some previous correspondence.

Q. And was Mr. Anderson already committed to Mr. Johnson?

A. I so understood, yes. Mr. Anderson has told me since he came here that he did not receive this letter.

Q. And your statement there with respect to the speakership was in reply to an inquiry from him, was it!

A. Yes, following out the inquiries that he had previously made.

Examined by Senator Kileen:

Q. Do you know the member of the assembly from Trempealeau county?

A. Yes.
Q. What is his name?
A. Mr. Grinde.
Q. Did you write him in regard to the Johnson matter?
A. No. As I stated, I talked to him here.
Q. Did you write him any letter in reference to it?
A. I did not.

Q. Did not write any letter at all in which you referred to the Johnson matter?

A. No. : Mr. Aylward: That is all the testimony we care to offer unless we can find Judge Rosa.

CHARLES D. Rosa, being first duly sworn, on oath testified as follows:

Mr. Rosa: Mr. Chairman, I would like to have you make it a matter of record here that I realize that it is not within the province of the Senate to subpoena me over here; that I come out of courtesy to the senate to say what I have to say in this matter.

Examined by Mr. Aylward :
Q. You are a member of the assembly?
A. Yes.
Q. From Beloit?
A. Yes.

Q. Were you in the commissioner of insurance's office on the day of the inauguration, Judge?

A. That was Monday wasn't it?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, sir, I was.
Q. Who was there, if you recall, at the time?

A. Well, Mr. Ekern was there. Mr. Beedle, I think. I know he was, and I think Mr. Richards of Ladysmith.

Q. Was there some general political talk indulged in at that time?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You may state what occurred there, so far as you recollect it at this time?

A. I went in thereI am inclined to think it was early in the afternoon, I am pretty certain it was—to call on Vr. Ekern. I called on him as a friend. Was in that end of the Capitol and—I came here on Monday—perhaps I can explain a little: I came here on Monday in the interests of Mr. Goff, who was a candidate for speaker. He asked me as a friend, and as a member of his senatorial district, to help him. I told him I was favorable to him for speaker, and I came up here to do what I could for him, and I saw a few members that day, and part of the time I spent in Mr. Ekern's office. That will probably explain somewhat the nature of the conversation that took place there. I do not recall just exactly how we got to talking about political matters. I think I asked Mr. Ekern something about the–Or no, I believe Mr. Ekern first asked me, or said: “You are up, I suppose, to be a member of the assembly this term ?” I told him I was, and I told him I was somewhat interested in the speakership contest and—I do not recall very clearly how we did get to talking about the political matter. I remember saying it looked as though there was some sort of a disagreement or personal quarrel between the Governor and Senator La Follette. That is, the newspapers would like to make it so, or some words to that effect, and Mr. Ekern said to me that he thought there was a row actually on between the adherents of the different men. I told him I was very sorry if any such thing was so, that I should hate to see any personal quarrel between Senator La Follette drawn into the election of a speaker of the assembly. And I told him I considered Senator La Follette one of the greatest constructive statesman there was in the country to-day, and I certainly was very friendly towards him. I was also friendly to the

Governor, that I thought he had made a good governor and I should hate to have the work of this legislature hampered by electing a man that was not friendly to both parties. I think Mr. Ekern said in reply: "I believe the fight is already on and I do not believe that you can stay on one side or take or the other, that you cannot take a middle ground in the matter. I think the lines are drawn in the speakership contest,”' or words to that effect, “and you will have to take one side or the other.” I told him I did not propose to do either, that I was going to take the middle ground, and would not knowingly vote for any man that was not friendly to both parties. Now, I don't know—we talked there for some little time along about that same strain, and I cannot recall just definitely what was said there more than I have said. Now, that might vary somewhat from the actual words that were spoken, but I think I have given you the general drift of the conversation that took place there.

Q. He knew that you were for Goff ?

A. I don't know that he did. I rather assumed in the conversation that he did. At least, I do not recall that I said anything about Goff to him.

Q. Did he attempt, so far as you know, to influence you or try to persuade you to vote for Johnson?

A. I don't think Mr. Johnson's name was mentioned in our conversation. It may have been, but I don't recall that it was.

Q. Have no recollection of it?
A. Not at the present time.

Q. Aside from that talk, that general talk you had there, had Mr. Ekern by phone or by letter or in any other way,, directly or indirectly, sought to induce you to support Johnson !

A. No, I don't think Mr. Ekern knew I was in the city until I dropped in on him. At least if he did I don't know how he did know it. I hadn't had any conversation or correspondence or anything of the kind with Mr. Ekern.

Q. You are the witness, the Judge Rosa who stood up at the hearing in the Governor's office and asked permission to make your statement ?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that permission was refused you?
A. The Governor said he would give me five minutes and I

11-S. J. Ap.

told him I did not want to go on the stand unless I told the whole thing.

Q. And that he refused ?

A. Well, I don't know whether he refused. About that-it was about quarter to twelve about thạt time and he and you were in some sort of a mix-up the time I got those words out of my mouth and I don't think he refused me.

Q. That is all there was of it?

A. That was all there was of it. The thing ended in five minutes after that, anyway.

Senator Randolph: I would like to have the last question and answer read.

(Thereupon the reporter read the last three questions and answers).

Examined by Senator Kileen:

Q. Now, the talk you had with Mr. Ekern down at his office referred to the trouble between Senator La Follette and Gover nor McGovern?

A. Yes, sir. That is, almost entirely.

Q. And that talk led up to the fact that the differences that were on between the Governor and the Senator had dropped out in the election of speaker, did it not?

A. Yes.

Q. And that the speakership contest was really a contest between Governor McGovern and Senator La Follette!

A. Well, hardly that. That is, our conversation, as I recall it, was simply this. Mr. Ekern said—I made the remark that the papers, the newspapers, had got the men lined up on one side or the other. Now, I was supporting Mr. Goff, and what the newspapers

Senator Kileen: I don't care about going back to that, but : I say when he said that the fight was on he said this fight was · on in the assembly.

Mr. Aylward: I submit he was just answering the question and ought to be allowed to answer it.

Senator Kileen: I don't care about going back over that.

Q. When he said the fight was on he said the fight was on in the assembly?

A. I didn't know what he meant. I didn't take it that way.

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