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Q. Will you look at that, Mr. Ekern? (Handing witness · paper). Could you tell me by an examination of that slip about how much was paid Mr. Anderson?

A. You mean Mr. Johnsun.
Q. I mean Mr. Johnson.
(Witness examines slip).

A. Why, I couldn't tell by this. I couldn't tell whether this is correct or not.

Q. Well, would you say it is approximately correct?

A. Why, the amount is larger than I had thought he drew. There is some of the items larger. Well, I couldn't say, ! would be wholly unable to say from that statement.

Q. He drew an expense account from the state!

A. No. As I understand it he drew an expense account from the state for the time he actually put in on the investigating committee, and when he worked on examinations for the department he did not draw an expense account from the funds of the committee.

Q. You and Mr. Johnson were friendly ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ask Mr. Johnson to close up the headquarters over at the hotel?

A. No, I didn't ask him to close them up. I told him of the demand that had been made on me.

Senator Kileen: That is all. Examined by Senator Martin:

Q. Mr. Ekern, in your first talk with the Govern or did he say to you: “Did you write two letters in regard to the chairmanship?" I think that was the evidence read here this afternoon, was it not?

A. No. The matter of letters is mentioned in the testimony taken before the Governor. There was no matter of len mentioned in the talk with the Governor.

Q. Well, it was mentioned. Do you know what two ters he referred to?

A. No, I do not.

Senator Kileen:

Q. Do you know whether you wrote any letters at all gard to the speakership?

A. No, I didn't write any letters on the speakership.

Q. Well, did you write letters on other subjects and in those letters refer to the speakership?

A. I think I wrote one letter in which the subject was referred to.

Q. Didn't you write more than one?
A. No, I wrote one letter.
Q. Who did you speak of for the speaker in that letter?
A. In that letter I spoke of Mr. Johnson.
Q. Did you write that letter to a member of the assembly?

A. That letter was written to Mr. Douglas Anderson, a inemter of the assembly.

Q. What did you say in that letter in reference to the speakership?

A. I merely said that Mr. Johnson said his campaign was going on well.

Mr. Aylward: Give the Senator the letter if he wishes it.
Senator Kileen:
Q. Have you got the letter?
A. I think I have the letter here.
(Witness produces letter).

Senator Kileen: I wish you would mark the letter and have it read into the record.

(The said letter was thereupon marked “Ekern's Exhibit 6," and reads as follows:)

"January 2, 1913. “Hon. Douglas Anderson,

North Crandon, Wis. My dear Anderson: I take it that you are planning to be here early next week anyway to take a hand in the organization but thought I should suggest that if possible you be here at least early as Monday morning. You appreciate that the or ganization means a good deal, and with your activity you can do a lot of good. I believe you will have an excellent lot of men to work with, and that the coming session will be an important one. I have been pretty busy helping the fire investigating committee get out its report and have kept L. L. Johnson busy here with me. He says he finds the situation good and I believe the members will not fail to recognize his ability and the faithful work he has been doing. If you get this in

Q. Mr. Ekern, that was between the 8th of January and the

These telegrams passed about the 15th, I Q. Do you know of any other acts of insubordination on Jr. Anderson's part ? Do you know if, at any time prior to the pointment as insurance commissioner of Wisconsin or working

Q. You testified, Mr. Ekern, that on the invitation of the

time to drop me a line before you come will be pleased to know
what you learn up there.
With the best wishes for the New Year, I am

Sincerely yours,"
Examined by Senator Ackley:

Q. Mr. Ekern, was Mr. Anderson actuary in your department between the Sth of January and the 18th of January?

A. He was.
Q. He was under your supervision during those days?
A. He was.

Q. You know, Wr. Eekrn, of any acts of insubordination, or any acts that Vr. Anderson willfully performed, relative to securing the appointment of insurance commissioner of Wisconsin ?

A. He telegraphed me, in reply to my inquiry whether he had agreed to accept, in substance that he had, and from that it was apparent that he had been in conference with the Governor during this time, and this conference was not disclosed to me.

Senator Kileen:
Q. Ilave you got that telegram?
A. Well, the telegram was read into the record this afternoon.

Senator Ackley: 18th of January?

A. Yes. Yes,
should say; 15th or 16th.
8th of January, he was conniving in any way to secure an apo
in any way which would be detrimental to your authority.

A. Prior to the 8th of January.
Q. Prior to the Sth of January?
A. No, I do not.
Examined by Senator Bosshard:

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Governor you saw him some time during February of the year 1912 and discussed with him National political matters?

A. I did.

Q. Is it a fact that the invitation came from the Governor and that you went to him in response to that invitation ?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Now, what was the situation that prompted the conversation at that time?

A. Well, the situation, I presume, was the speech of Senator La Follette at Philadelphia at which he was taken sick, which created a good deal of stir in the newspapers.

Q. Was that the time when the newspapers reported on his physical collapse ?

A. Yes.
Q. And the possibility of his withdrawal from the race?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, did the Governor at that time make any suggestions or recommendations to you as to what course he thought the Wisconsin delegation to the National Convention should take in that matter?

A. Well, as I understood it, his purpose was to have the delegation come out for Roosevelt.

Q. Did he in substance state that to you at that time?
A. Yes.

Q. The Wisconsin delegates at that time had been selected in a republican caucus, had they not, agreed upon ?

A. No. The delegates-merely the names of the delegates had been.

Q. They had been proposed but not-
A. (Interrupting) Proposed ?

Q. (Continuing) Selected until the spring primary. Is that right?

A. I don't think that the petitions had been circulated at that time. I don't know, but it was understood generally who were to be the delegates at that time.

Q. And you testified that his first recommendation was that the Wisconsin delegation ought to come out for Roosevelt at that time?

A. Yes, that was as I recall the conversation.
Q. And the second suggestion was that if the first were not

followed, that they come out for La Follette first and for Roosevelt second choice?

A. Yes.
Q. What response did you make?

Senator Kileen: Mr. Chairman, I object to this line of eramination as not included in the resolution.

Senator Bosshard:

Q. I will ask you that further question, Mr. Ekern: What conversation was your response to those suggestions?

A. Why, my response was this: In the first place, we only had newspaper reports to act upon. In the next place Senator La Follette needed his friends at that particular time, and that to come out for Roosevelt second choice was particularly equivalent to declaring Senator La Follette out of the race for president.

Senator A. E. Martin:

Q. The Governor did not ask you to support him as vice president for the Bull Moose party at that time, did he?

A. Oh, no, no.

The Chairman: The senator from the 32nd may proceed. Senator Bosshard:

Q. Whom did you support for Governor in the recent elec, tion in this state, Jr. Ekern?

A. Francis E. McGovern.

Q. Do you recall whether you advised any people to vote for him or stated it was your judgment he ought to be elected!

A. I did.

Q. Do you know whether the Governor knew of your position in the matter!

A. Why, I don't know. He was pretty busy campaigning, but I don't see why he shouldn't have known of it.

Q. You were never criticized by the Governor for political activity during the recent state campaign, were you, where you supported him?

A. There was never any criticism or mention of anything improper until this meeting of January 6th.

Examined by Senator Randolph:
Q. Mr. Ekern, have you any knowledge of any other ap-

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